Illithoid Culture

Portius

So, there's been some discussion about Kepheran culture lately, and there's people supporting that kind of thing IG via RP. Are there similar sources on native Illithoid culture? I haven't been able to find very much, but that almost never means that it doesn't exist.

Vivet

Shaddus said:

I've always wondered if you can use Sacraments Sacrifice for a player's inner worm.

Mechanically, the inner worm seems to be the same as a soul, just with a different name. So I suspect you probably can.

Also, you have to remember where Illith's Heart is, so generally deeper under the ground means you are that much closer to Illith. I'm pointing this out because if we ever find Illith's other half, that preference of position will probably redirect to whatever direction She is in if there's an illithoid settlement there.

Ixthiaxa has hints that illithoid are capable of sentimentalism and understanding in the way that Dynara had implied Soulless do not (as per Dracnoris' book). It is important to remember that after the Elders sharded, they progressively lost more of their sense of selves over time, so it is arguable that the intensity and degree of... Soullessness... gets more dilute with time with the Illithoid, and perhaps more so with their distance from any remnant of Illith that remains. The Illithoid of the Prison generally aren't interested in expansion, from what I've seen, outside a select few, so their desire to remain might also reflect on their desire to remain as much like Illith as is possible. This might also explain why Illithoid that come through the portal are capable of being so much more independent of that society/hierarchy.

If I can think of/remember more, I'll post it!

EDIT: Other important tidbit, the Prison Illithoid are capable of refashioning more of Illith's organs than just the Heart, but this requires a special illithoid to be raised for this specific task, to -become- that organ. It's a distinct and important part of their epic cycle, and another facet of what influences my view.

Moi

My illithoid book (titled "Essays on the Enemy, Volume One: the Illithoid Menace") presents a summary of illithoid history with a focus on escape/colonization attempts; the question of whether illithoid are capable of true morality; three different theories on the nature of the inner worm and a proposal for redeeming illithoids, by extracting and destroying their inner worms as children and raising them in less hideous culture. That last one is informed by Iytha's pet theory on the topic, that the Illithoid and the Inner Worm are actually two different races, ala dragons and dracnari. The inner worm are actual shards of Illith, while the outer body is a viscanti-like amalgam of the shards of all the Elders Illith ate before splintering.

Note that there's no direct lore backing for that theory. It just looks pretty on paper and is compatible with all of the observations Iytha has available to her. If you have evidence to contradict it, please write a book for your library.

Dakhamunzu

There are the illithoid in the Undervault but for obvious reasons I haven't interacted with them much.

How I imagine illithoid culture with no point of reference is as a very... cynical race. They've had the kephera oppressing them and they're kind-of reviled as having sharded from a soulless. I think I've seen the word cult pop up around them lots so I also imagine them as race quick to form blood thirsty mobs. I do imagine them as quite intelligent though, with twisty thought path ways and with similar morals to the viscanti. Lots of people have tried to argue Dakhamunzu into saying that the worm counts as a soul, which I personally don't really agree with. I don't necessarily think of them as soulless though because I'm sure they have emotions and what not (extremely tainted, blood thirsty emotions but still the full range plus an extra bit on the hunger). If they do have souls though, I'm not sure where they would have come from.

Shaddus

I've always wondered if you can use Sacraments Sacrifice for a player's inner worm.

Svana

From a mechanical point of view, Illithoid do in fact have some version of a soul.

The most obvious example of this is the Soulless Tarot. Works just the same on Illithoid as it does on everyone else. You can also look at how they die as an example. When any other race dies, a soul is left in the room until they pray/conglute/phoenix/etc etc etc. With Illithoid, they have an inner worm instead of a soul that serves the same function. By that logic, the inner worm is just a physical, more primal version of a soul, as it performs all the needs that any other race's soul would do.

From an RP perspective, you can argue one way or the other, but the fact remains that Illithoid are linked to the Tapestry of Fate just like any other mortal, so discriminating against them because their soul is 'different' is just an exercise in both ignorance and blatant bigotry.

I'm not saying you should feel bad if your character is racist or intolerant toward other races, as it is perfectly valid RP... but you're going to have a hard time justifying your racism unless you plug your ears and ignore all logic.

Lerad

There isn't as much player-driven illithoid RP as there is keph RP, which is both a pity as well as very useful. It allows it to be very freeform in regards to player handling of illithoid, and not just for illithoid players. I think the illithoid race is the second most freeform race for RP, with the first being the humans. The issue for illithoid souls is definitely debatable. The inner worm, whatever "practical" purposes it serves, is not a soul. That alone is grounds for semantic debate about whether they have souls. The fact that they come back to life through the portal of fate and meet the fates etc though, are definitely areas where the soul argument favours the illithoid. The hatred of all things soulless, however, definitely also plays an important and unique perspective into this. If the soulless gods truly don't have souls, then their shards having souls could be argued as illogical as well. There's no real bigotry in justifying illithoid discrimination as an excercise in argument. It is very much possible to argue it either way.

The pity is that there is a lot of potential for a proper player-made hierarchical RP in the illithoid racial design (similarly to the keph), if there are players who would want to pick it up. I'm not sure if there is any in mag, there might have been, but I've never been scouted to be put into such a player organised hierarchy. The 

Portius

What sort of hierarchial RP do you mean, @Lerad? I haven't been able to get anything beyond probing and greeting things in the Undervault, and that didn't tell me much. Are there juicy lore quests down there that I don't know about that shed light on this?

Also tagging the all-knowing @Kalnid because I forgot to make sure he saw this earlier.

Maligorn

Just investigating what's in the game yields a few things.

There's definitely a hierarchy, which places psionic prowess over martial prowess, as seen with Grand Cenobites.

"Lower" is "better". Ixthiaxa and the Prison are both built with the idea that the higher-ranking illithoids inhabit the lower levels, while the low-status inhabit the higher.

Females take precedent over males, but it's much more flexible than kephera. See: breeders, but male Cthogglogg being Illith's Avatar.

They are fighting tooth and nail for freedom, and have gained Ixthiaxa and the Cyaethl colony over the years, despite the kephera's best efforts. They are definitely thus a territorial and conquistador-ish race.

Kalnid

I'm not all-knowing, just all-reading, and there's really not much written about the illithoid. Iytha's got a book that mostly focuses on their biology but I think mentions bits of their culture in terms of potentially redeeming them with the light. Ninjas have a bunch of stuff(I think?) but being secretive is one part so I really don't know much about the rest. I think it's pretty similar to Magnagora in a bunch of ways, particularly might makes right and secret backstabbery. Go look around in the GIP and Ixthiaxa, do comm quests or whatever.

Concerning the soul issue: Clearly they have a soul parallel because Nihilists can rip it out to kill the main body.

Tylwyth

Shaddus said:

I've always wondered if you can use Sacraments Sacrifice for a player's inner worm.

You might ask Lerad(and someone with sacraments if you don't have it) he's the active illithoid in Glom that I know of.

He might be willing to experiment? IDK but if it proved a soul or something.

IMO the proof of an illithoids soul is that they can reincarnate into other races without an inner worm.

Enyalida

They clearly emulate a soul very well. 

Shaddus

What good does a soul do anyway?


Uh! Souls! Good gods ya'll! What are they good for? Absolutely nothin'

Tarkenton

Have cameo, run around as illithoid a lot when I'm bashing.  Willing to be available for tests for cookies.