Cankermore: Is it broken?

Tremula

So, I'm up doing the Cankermore quest, playing by the rules that I know:

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 >> Igasho           are strong against Mugwumps.    <<

 >> Loboshigaru   are strong against Taurians.        <<

 >> Mugwumps    are strong against Loboshigaru.   <<

 >> Taurians        are strong against Igasho.           <<

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Then this happens (condensed to make it easier to see).

On the edge of a battlefield.
The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land. A troop of 10 undead mugwump mills about here.
You see exits leading southeast, southwest, and northwest.
02:13:43.66|100%h|113%m|100%e|10p|99%en|100%w mBexk-

The sound of uniform marching echoes in the distance.
02:13:44.53|100%h|113%m|100%e|10p|99%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru uniformly march in from the southeast.
02:13:45.48|100%h|113%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

The roar of battle echoes from nearby.
02:13:47.51|100%h|113%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru bare their claws, coated in crimson blood and hesitate briefly before charging into a troop of undead mugwump.
02:13:51.14|100%h|113%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru has killed 2 units!
02:13:54.26|100%h|112%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-
(-75m)

A troop of undead mugwump begin to conjure large balls of mud and rush unflinchingly into battle with a troop of mold loboshigaru.
02:13:57.85|100%h|112%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of undead mugwump's counter-attack is completely repelled by a troop of mold loboshigaru. No units were killed.
02:14:01.34|100%h|112%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru snarl, exposing rows of sharp canine teeth and hesitate briefly before charging into a troop of undead mugwump.
02:14:07.12|100%h|111%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-
(-75m)

A troop of mold loboshigaru's attack is completely repelled by a troop of undead mugwump. No units were killed.
02:14:11.08|100%h|111%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of undead mugwump unsheath small knives, flecked with dried blood and rush unflinchingly into battle with a troop of mold loboshigaru.
02:14:14.35|100%h|110%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-
(-75m)

A troop of undead mugwump has killed 3 units!
02:14:18.38|100%h|110%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru bare their claws, coated in crimson blood and hesitate briefly before charging into a troop of undead mugwump.
02:14:23.64|100%h|109%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru has killed 7 units!
02:14:27.62|100%h|109%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of undead mugwump begin to conjure large balls of mud and rush unflinchingly into battle with a troop of mold loboshigaru.
02:14:31.68|100%h|109%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of undead mugwump has killed 2 units!
02:14:35.70|100%h|107%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-
(-75m)

A troop of mold loboshigaru snarl, exposing rows of sharp canine teeth and hesitate briefly before charging into a troop of undead mugwump.
02:14:41.62|100%h|107%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru's attack is completely repelled by a troop of undead mugwump. No units were killed.
02:14:45.65|100%h|106%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-
(-75m)

A troop of undead mugwump curl their hands into small, tense fists and rush unflinchingly into battle with a troop of mold loboshigaru.
02:14:49.47|100%h|106%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of undead mugwump has killed 4 units!
02:14:52.63|100%h|105%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-
(-75m)

A troop of mold loboshigaru tense their legs into a low crouch and hesitate briefly before charging into a troop of undead mugwump.
02:14:57.96|100%h|105%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

A troop of mold loboshigaru utterly decimates a troop of undead mugwump, mercilessly killing every last one of them.
02:15:01.38|100%h|105%m|100%e|10p|100%en|100%w mBexk-

Now I understand that there was a chance of me losing units, seeing as I let the lobos get the first attack, but even though they were weak against mugs, they still managed to defeat the entire squad. Is it supposed to be like this, or am I just missing something?

Marcella

It is. It's infuriatingly random.

Zagreus

Yep.. random as far as I could ever tell.

Forget trying to kill all of them and go for the other win condition, get to the opposing base.

Elanorwen

Ixion said:

Yep.. random as far as I could ever tell.

Forget trying to kill all of them and go for the other win condition, get to the opposing base.

There is a boost to certain races fighting certain other races. That said, the RNG is skewed in the NPC army's favor in that I've seen an army that was weak against mine take mine out in 2 hits. PC army never deals as much damage as the NPC one either. The way the battlefield is set up, too... chances are you will have to walk into a location to have your army attacked first on the exchange too.

Leolamins

Ixion said:

Yep.. random as far as I could ever tell.

Forget trying to kill all of them and go for the other win condition, get to the opposing base.

Yep what Ixion said.  I go ahead and scout out the clear path to avoid the fights.  Makes finishing the quest a lot quicker and easier.

Ieptix

The quest isn't broken; the difference between strong/neutral/weak is just small, and not at all make-or-break.

Shaddus

Ieptix said:

The quest isn't broken; the difference between strong/neutral/weak is just small, and not at all make-or-break.

Why? I mean, the battle seems like it should basically be rock-paper-scissors, but if it doesn't make a difference, why even include that information?

Ieptix

You're welcome to go back in time, find the quest designer, and ask them! I'm also not saying there's no impact at all, but it's not the case that rock will always beat scissors universally.

Xenthos

Ieptix said:

You're welcome to go back in time, find the quest designer, and ask them! I'm also not saying there's no impact at all, but it's not the case that rock will always beat scissors universally.

(Or ever, in the case of this quest!)

I too gave up on that part of it and just ignored the weak / strong aspect.  Regardless of who fought what, my team almost always lost... even when it was a full unit versus just one of the opposing force remaining.  The lone NPC survivor is basically Hercules.

You beat Cankermore by not playing the game, but just ignoring it entirely in favour of a tactical assault on the Commander.  You can win essentially 100% of the time doing this.

Riluna

Yes. Knowing that would have saved me so much time! Go that route, especially if you're grinding yourself through the epic or something.

I was lucky I ever got it, we just had the construct to get there at the time. It still took me weeks. Army attrition is simply not the solution to that puzzle.

Tremula

Luckily I got the honours line, so I can kiss seeing those allisaurs good-bye for a while. Still, it was rather annoying getting it all done.