I'm fully aware of the forests' attachment to Faethorn. My point is that Makaela thinks it justified to attack someone in Faethorn, and to her it is. To a cityfolk, it's unjustified, and they can enemy her for it.
I agree with this. That's why I didn't protest my enemying to Magnagora. Well... that, and I don't actually go into the city... ever.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Enadonella was in territory she knew she was not welcome in,, Knew that
iof found there she would be attacked. There was a call over hte Glom
combat clan that thwey were there etc, I went to help defend How is that
her legitimatly not doing anything to deserve the attack? It was not
just me I was the last person to arrive before Enadonella got away just
saying.
You do realise that while ethereal is sort of protected by the forests, that doesn't mean you should just attack anyone else you find there, nor that you should expect them to smile and nod when you attack them there, right? Simply being in Faethorn doesn't "give you the right" to attack them. It's just a reason people use.
Totally unrelated to the ongoing meltdown. Faethorn is under the explicit protection of both forests, and even routinely aligns with both forests. If it had been a new moon, Enadonella would have actually been attacked by the fae. Glom and seren have every right to attack anyone who steps in faethorn that has been enemied to either one. It is not neutral territory. It's not "just a reason," the forests cannot exist without it.
Edit: just for general knowledge.
I'm fully aware of the forests' attachment to Faethorn. My point is that Makaela thinks it justified to attack someone in Faethorn, and to her it is. To a cityfolk, it's unjustified, and they can enemy her for it.
Any city folk that has the slightest vague awareness of Maeve, her brand, and Magnagora's involvement can't realistically call being attacked there "unjustified." ESPECIALLY not a Mag who raids one of those said forests routinely. Willful ignorance maybe, but they can't act like the forests acted without a reason. Ultimately, you can only RP blinders so much before people won't take you seriously. Saying glom is not justified in kicking out known raiders that are part of the org that branded Maeve, who were there to see Maeve specifically, is really pushing that boundary.
Enemy brands are obviously whatever to me. I'm just saying people can't act like they don't know certain things just so they can say city folk don't have to care about it.
Enadonella was in territory she knew she was not welcome in,, Knew that
iof found there she would be attacked. There was a call over hte Glom
combat clan that thwey were there etc, I went to help defend How is that
her legitimatly not doing anything to deserve the attack? It was not
just me I was the last person to arrive before Enadonella got away just
saying.
You do realise that while ethereal is sort of protected by the forests, that doesn't mean you should just attack anyone else you find there, nor that you should expect them to smile and nod when you attack them there, right? Simply being in Faethorn doesn't "give you the right" to attack them. It's just a reason people use.
Totally unrelated to the ongoing meltdown. Faethorn is under the explicit protection of both forests, and even routinely aligns with both forests. If it had been a new moon, Enadonella would have actually been attacked by the fae. Glom and seren have every right to attack anyone who steps in faethorn that has been enemied to either one. It is not neutral territory. It's not "just a reason," the forests cannot exist without it.
Edit: just for general knowledge.
I'm fully aware of the forests' attachment to Faethorn. My point is that Makaela thinks it justified to attack someone in Faethorn, and to her it is. To a cityfolk, it's unjustified, and they can enemy her for it.
Any city folk that has the slightest vague awareness of Maeve, her brand, and Magnagora's involvement can't realistically call being attacked there "unjustified." ESPECIALLY not a Mag who raids one of those said forests routinely. Willful ignorance maybe, but they can't act like the forests acted without a reason. Ultimately, you can only RP blinders so much before people won't take you seriously. Saying glom is not justified in kicking out known raiders that are part of the org that branded Maeve, who were there to see Maeve specifically, is really pushing that boundary.
Enemy brands are obviously whatever to me. I'm just saying people can't act like they don't know certain things just so they can say city folk don't have to care about it.
Hey, we're on the same page here. I'm just saying that she thinks being enemied for attacking someone in Faethorn is unfair, but Mag doesn't care what the reason is.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Man, the one day I went out drinking instead of staying at home with no life, and I miss one of the meltdowns I stalk the forums for. I wrote a sentence here about how I was so sad and all, but then it grew to become a full reply anyway. I probably shouldn't be posting this after Nocht's stop-sign... but well, I can't resist. Sorry, Nocht.
If you're a city folk standing in faethorn... and getting attacked by a forestal there... it actually isn't much of a justification for enemying the attacker. To claim it is an "unjustified" enemying actually makes a lot of sense. Standing in faethorn as a city person IS provocation. Most forestals don't attack city people passing by willy nilly only because they have better things to do, is all. After all, this is a rich game with so much grind and RP available to every one.
In the current climate of this specific case, though, it is actually entirely reasonable for any city person to be chased out of, if not attacked, when in faethorn, what with renewed Lisaera/Viravain interest in Maeve's brand. Specifically for Enadonella/Kierstin, at any rate, it's also a case of the accusations of their being fae-killers. Lerad's news post about it in Glom wasn't based off first-hand information, but as a character, and with the current political situation, between the choice of erring on the side of killing some mags or on the side of letting fae-killers run around, he chose the former, is all.
All that said and done, however, no matter how "unjustified" getting enemied for attacking a known enemy in faethorn is, there really is not much of a complaint to be made. Mag and Glom aren't on good terms, and while Glom isn't going to let Mags traipse around, neither is Mag going to bother with courtesies or justifications for enemying - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The lack of "justification" for enemying a forestal defending faethorn is superseded by the political climate, and Mag isn't going to back down from their aggressive stance now when they haven't backed down for months (in-game years) already. It's really not something unexpected. The moment Maeve's brand came up in game from a Divine driven event, pretty much everyone on both sides should be prepared for escalation. That's the entire point of this game - the escalation of conflict.
I'll end off with just one piece of advice to Makaela (to prevent my post from being entirely deleted because I'm not stopping after Nocht said to stop): when someone says an enemy status is "impossible" to be overturned, what they actually mean can range from "it's impossible to do it within the next five minutes" to "it's impossible forever".
In other words, it's not impossible.
It all boils down to how much you really want to be unenemied. Plenty of people have demonstrated it is possible to stay unenemied to an org even during times of all-out, full blown war. But it's not because of some god-given right, or even because they have stayed to being "right" in terms of justifications for their actions. But rather, because they've bent over backwards around sixty times over to maintain good personal relationships enough to supersede political relations, which is no mean feat, indeed. And then there are those poor souls who did just that and got enemied anyway. And then there are those who go out their way to maintain their enemy status.
Getting unenemied isn't about being right or wrong, or "not earning" your enemyship. It's about currying favour and making the person want to unenemy you. And while some people are more susceptible to persuasion, absolutely no one is exempt from this rule. In some political climates, it can translate to "impossible" - until the status quo of the political climate changes, is all. Getting enemied and being told "impossible" is simply not the end of the world.
One last advice: if you want to quit, go ahead. A break from a game that is causing you distress is the first thing I will recommend to anyone - a game is something you should give up if you're not enjoying it. There're more games out there. However, if you quit, don't destroy your lessons/investments/skills etc. It just closes a door unnecessarily. A game that you've put down once is a game you can pick up again in the future, and short of a few special individuals, there are very little people this community will not welcome back with open arms. If you can't enjoy the game now, at least don't prevent yourself from enjoying it in the future.
The forum rage won't help anything. It will just make you angrier, and certainly won't influence anything in character. Go chill, stop reading posts, relax. Goosfraba.
I feel pretty...oh so pretty...I feel pretty and witty and gaaaaaay...
One last advice: if you want to quit, go ahead. A break from a game that is causing you distress is the first thing I will recommend to anyone - a game is something you should give up if you're not enjoying it. There're more games out there. However, if you quit, don't destroy your lessons/investments/skills etc. It just closes a door unnecessarily. A game that you've put down once is a game you can pick up again in the future, and short of a few special individuals, there are very little people this community will not welcome back with open arms. If you can't enjoy the game now, at least don't prevent yourself from enjoying it in the future.
There's very little I have to say on any of this, other than to agree with this so much. I seem to recall there were a couple of people long ago who would decide to quit forever, then do stuff like buy and sell arties until they had no credits left before they qq permanently, and learn and forget skills until they had no lessons. Or when lessons->coins happened they would forget all of their skills and "spin out". I don't recall any specific names offhand (Morbo? I thought I heard he qq'd forever, and he's currently at 0% of Stratas's might, so...) but it always seemed like a really silly thing to do. Kinda helped to resolve not to do it, ever.
There are all kinds of ragequit coping strategies, depending on what bugs you. I've quit Stratas so many times it's a wonder I still like him. I've alted, to the point of having a second demigod who held an elected position, I've moved back and forth to Gaudi so much I might as well be a yo-yo. And of course, I just stopped playing for 2 years. And all that really took was deleting my bookmarks. Didn't even have to change my password to a random string of characters and then argue with the admin to get it changed back or anything!
And I'm glad I didn't scrap Stratas. Yeah, in some ways I hate the baggage he has (part of why I'll never play my others at this point). But it's also nice to not have to RP being a newbie and feeling so bloody transparent. And it's nice having trans skills. And demi. And.... so much work I don't -have- to do again. I really wouldn't be playing again if I had, and that would kinda suck.
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
When someone tells you that you have to leave your Cult/Avatardom/Order to join a city...
And you really didn't have to.
The rage.
Well, some outside orders have been tolerated. I'm not sure you'd be welcomed in Mag as an avatar of one of the gods who condemned our entire Pantheon to the void. We tolerate opposing gods due to mortal politics, but that's not generally extended to our citizens. So yeah, you probably did have to. (Unless you're talking about a totally different god and or situation and then I will hush.)
It's probably worse the other way around, when someone erroneously tells you that you won't need to leave an order to join and you leave your org only to find they were wrong. Totally, completely wrong, in a way that reading any of the relevant scrolls would have explicitly told them, leaving no conceivable reason for their misinformation besides malice or absolute incompetence.
Just when I start having the energy to engage again, poor Daraius is hit with about four events that should be ultra depressing for him. This game is impossible.
Also, Mysrai Themselves might be very anti-Morgfaindrocilzon, but the law implicitly hinges on the stance of the -order- itself in regards to Magnagora. Overall, the order doesn't have one. Yes, we're supposed to be very anti-Taint because Mysrai is, but I would have loopholed my way in given the proper audience and initiative, I'm sure.
Though I'm more than sure that Mysrai would've kicked me out anyways, unless I had successfully pulled the not-so-secret-agent card. Regardless, done is done, so those avenues just won't be mine to explore I guess.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
I was...actually working to undo the enemy statuses over this Faethorn thing. I have actual influence, and some evidence that Glomdoring was being manipulated into attacking the people they did. People need to calm down.
@Eritheyl I would not have tolerated a Mysrai avatar in my guild. I'm not sure who said it would be ok, but, Mysrai sent Drocilla to the void, so...not gonna happen.
@Eritheyl I would not have tolerated a Mysrai avatar in my guild.
In your guild, perhaps not. But there's always Plan B. Or was, at least, when this was still a thing.
>-
I'm more annoyed with circumstance in that this was stated as an exact requirement when, looking over the law after the fact, slight potential for workarounds existed. That's all. I would have accepted sacrificing Avatar to at least remain within the order, with Their permission, for personal reasons.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
@Eritheyl I would not have tolerated a Mysrai avatar in my guild.
In your guild, perhaps not. But there's always Plan B. Or was, at least, when this was still a thing.
>-
I'm more annoyed with circumstance in that this was stated as an exact requirement when, looking at the law after the fact, the potential for workarounds existed. That's all.
Well, the citizenship process gives the public a time to object. Not saying it's explicitly written in the law that you can't be @Mysrai's avatar, but there certainly would have been a sustained objection. It's really only the illusion of choice in this case.
Well, the citizenship process gives the public a time to object. Not saying it's explicitly written in the law that you can't be @Mysrai's avatar, but there certainly would have been a sustained objection. It's really only the illusion of choice in this case.
You're probably right. However, that is all a very different situation from 'you have to leave your order and that's that'. More than choice (or lack thereof), it gives the opportunity for Fun - seeking compromise, being denied compromise, discussions discussions discussions. I would have loved to at least been able to debate the topic, but it was presented under the guise that it wasn't in any way up for contention.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
The drone, the whistle, the thundrous sound; It seared their eyes, it shook the ground. One hundred thousand voices lift, While ashes like dirty snowfall drift.
The clouds of purple glowing gas, The tiny sun is rising fast. Your star... Is on the rise.
If we're going to want to retain people who have just returned to the game from a long absence, maybe people should not do really stupid things to them, and give them a chance to remember how to play first.
I remember asking someone high up in Mag about this and they said 'Which Order is the person wanting to join part of? We allow some." And I said 'Vira'. Their response?
'Oh gods no she wants to KILL US ALL!!!"
Hallifax is OK with it because they still think we fall for their 'civilised' appearance (/Forum rp) but Magnagora, no. We have enough security problems considering -anyone- can walk through the city unmolested. But that's none of my business.
Nope. Also not enemied to Faethorn when I checked. I don't really know who started the rumor and I doubt Enadonella at least would suddenly start killing them.
I do know who started the rumour, I think, but I'm just gonna leave it.
@Synkarin@Isluna Chances are I have been delving to deep into my character... and it turns out I just cant up and leave. Have had people tell me that to do so would hurt certain people I do not want to hurt... I can however be on less frequently.
Comments
The Inner Sea. I take commissions doe.
Any city folk that has the slightest vague awareness of Maeve, her brand, and Magnagora's involvement can't realistically call being attacked there "unjustified." ESPECIALLY not a Mag who raids one of those said forests routinely. Willful ignorance maybe, but they can't act like the forests acted without a reason. Ultimately, you can only RP blinders so much before people won't take you seriously. Saying glom is not justified in kicking out known raiders that are part of the org that branded Maeve, who were there to see Maeve specifically, is really pushing that boundary. Enemy brands are obviously whatever to me. I'm just saying people can't act like they don't know certain things just so they can say city folk don't have to care about it.
And you really didn't have to.
The rage.
-
There are all kinds of ragequit coping strategies, depending on what bugs you. I've quit Stratas so many times it's a wonder I still like him. I've alted, to the point of having a second demigod who held an elected position, I've moved back and forth to Gaudi so much I might as well be a yo-yo. And of course, I just stopped playing for 2 years. And all that really took was deleting my bookmarks. Didn't even have to change my password to a random string of characters and then argue with the admin to get it changed back or anything!
And I'm glad I didn't scrap Stratas. Yeah, in some ways I hate the baggage he has (part of why I'll never play my others at this point). But it's also nice to not have to RP being a newbie and feeling so bloody transparent. And it's nice having trans skills. And demi. And.... so much work I don't -have- to do again. I really wouldn't be playing again if I had, and that would kinda suck.
Well, some outside orders have been tolerated. I'm not sure you'd be welcomed in Mag as an avatar of one of the gods who condemned our entire Pantheon to the void. We tolerate opposing gods due to mortal politics, but that's not generally extended to our citizens. So yeah, you probably did have to. (Unless you're talking about a totally different god and or situation and then I will hush.)
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Also, Mysrai Themselves might be very anti-Morgfaindrocilzon, but the law implicitly hinges on the stance of the -order- itself in regards to Magnagora. Overall, the order doesn't have one. Yes, we're supposed to be very anti-Taint because Mysrai is, but I would have loopholed my way in given the proper audience and initiative, I'm sure.
Though I'm more than sure that Mysrai would've kicked me out anyways, unless I had successfully pulled the not-so-secret-agent card. Regardless, done is done, so those avenues just won't be mine to explore I guess.
-
@Eritheyl I would not have tolerated a Mysrai avatar in my guild. I'm not sure who said it would be ok, but, Mysrai sent Drocilla to the void, so...not gonna happen.
I'm more annoyed with circumstance in that this was stated as an exact requirement when, looking over the law after the fact, slight potential for workarounds existed. That's all. I would have accepted sacrificing Avatar to at least remain within the order, with Their permission, for personal reasons.
-
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Yomoigu = not against the twelve = allowed in Mag
Mysrai = against the twelve = not allowed in Mag
So, as far as Nikka is concerned, the rules say no Mysrai. And no one has ever suggested anything different to her.
It seared their eyes, it shook the ground.
One hundred thousand voices lift,
While ashes like dirty snowfall drift.
The clouds of purple glowing gas,
The tiny sun is rising fast.
Your star...
Is on the rise.
Sigh. People in this game.
The Inner Sea. I take commissions doe.