You're probably right. But then again I think any organisation would be upset at another that immediately takes in and provides protection to the person who just up and left them while their leader because they decided to throw a hissy fit.
Arcanis doesn't know either, he just has his own gloriously tragic version that I throughly enjoyed reading about on the Glom news. I've seen some epic leadership breakdowns but that was by far the most impressive. Then it played out in some pretty hilarious grudges and spite for a while. Let's just say if his posts have been any indication, his "version," is going to have some....inaccuracies.
Sigh, allow me to enlighten the fragile minds then. Glomdoring and Magnagora have had enmity between one another ever since Glomdoring attempted to distance itself from the idea of 'Taint' and 'Tainted' which is practically near the beginning. This was the main idea that empowered the entire 'shifting' and 'transforming' concept within Glomdoring, which in turn severed any shared theme (for some anyway, others still see it as tainted) of two organizations. Ever since the beginning of this change, certain players have made it their perrogative to make sure the wedge remains and attempt to change Glomdoring from "Corrupted forest" to "Different type of nature".
If you mention taint in Glomdoring or that it is somehow corrupt or tainted, then you'll likely get your tongue cut out.Think of Glomdoring and Magnagora as two fatal diseases within the same body and are both competing to get the upperhand and be the 'big bad'. Another example, for those bookworms out there, would be from the Wheel of Time series and how the two different sources of 'evil' were actually aggressive to one another and attempted to subvert each other whenever they could.
Glomdoring was, from its very beginning, not considered "tainted" by the players there-- that was the original Viravain's entire concept. There was, as such, no "change," "beginning of the change," or "wedge issue". Glomdoring never distanced itself from the Taint because it never felt that it was close in the first place.
Welp new topic for me to research and write a book on IG. Added to my ever growing list XD
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited May 2015
@Arcanis Lol no.
Condescension is a poor substitute for wit, especially when you are trying to be condescending to people who have been around since the actual beginning of Glomdoring. You are literally talking to players who have been involved with the Glom-Mag relationship since the conception of said relationship. I've even been involved on both sides of that relationship. So allow me to enlighten "fragile minds."
First, it is as Xenthos said. Glomdoring has never considered itself tainted, and has no particular animosity towards the taint any more so than it possesses animosity towards Celest or other orgs. Glomdoring, as a general consensus, believes itself to be an adaptation as a result of the Taint. Where serenwilde hid and avoided it, Glomdoring endured the taint and changed, the Wyrd being what was left behind as a creation of Viravain after the Taint was repelled. To be very clear, Glomdoring does not care enough about the Taint to drive "wedges" between itself and the Taint. To state that Glomdoring holds the Taint at arms length because of some fear of it or being related to it is really just a simple lack of understanding. Glomdoring does not care about the Taint, Glomdoring endured the taint as far as its members are concerned and are stronger for it, there is nothing to hold at arms length. They do not believe themselves tainted, and do not believe themselves capable of ever being tainted.
The only animosity that sprouts up is when some people try to imply or openly state Glomoring is tainted. That's offensive because Glomdoring believes itself to be superior to the taint. Where Mag was consumed by the taint, Glomdoring became the consumer emerged stronger than ever. It is not a grudge. To Glomdoring, calling them tainted is to call them less than what they are. It's insulting only in that capacity, which is everything to Glomdoring. They do not care about comparisons, they only care you just demeaned them.
Your fundamental understanding of Glom's entire raison d'etre is really flawed.
Any sort of Glom/Mag grudges actually stem from the whole Fainite invasion from Glomdoring's player founding, and then the later attempt by Fainites (me) to repeat it. But that was some 200+ IC years ago and Glom really isn't hung up on it. The only existing grudge that has any substantial weight is the Maeve branding, which has absolutely nothing with what you are arguing. The little grudges and spite politics with Marcella and you, or even Glom stealing that one Mag ship and getting it blown up, is ultimately really inconsequential to long term Glom/Mag relations.
People were given amnesty before bloodtax, so no one lost hours of their time, unless it takes you hours to recover 50k exp.
Yes, but you're killing people in enemy territory.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I swear some people don't read, or listen, or whatever. They just open their mouths and sprout off nonsensical conspiracy theories. Someone needs to design a tinfoil hat!
1) Marcella lied through her goddamn teeth about biting her tongue about her dislike . Everytime she saw me she said something negative.
2) I didnt see your ruddy sign till after I hit enter
3) There is a god damn difference between Evil and Superior and how most of what your city acted. Marcella was a bitch to me well before she I knew I was trems daughter as was Ikini.
I was not expecting to be treated kindly but again there is a difference between disdain and being an arsehat
Example Pectus treats Makaela with disdain however she has not crossed into the arsehat territory. Vetala much the same excet vetala also gives a bit f respect cus familial relation. <-- these are examples of how you can rp evil/disdain/distrust without crossing in the aggressive harrasing crap Marcella and Ikini did right off
I cant say much about you I had far to little interaction with you.
Will say the trying to throw you won prizes in my face when I returned every prize I won was a low blow though.
"> Oh you hush now. It's not disdain, it's loathing you. You dirty Glomdorian you.
Now the loving teasing aside, what in the heck is the point of all this fighting on this thread? We get it, people don't like some people. People don't like what some people have done. But what's the point of putting it on the tweets thread instead of RPing out the IC bits?
And can we PLEASE stop bringing up Marcella every time something bad happens? She messed up, we get that. But she's good and trying to fix her mistakes. Repeatedly bringing them up is just shitty.
Glomdoring was, from its very beginning, not considered "tainted" by the players there-- that was the original Viravain's entire concept. There was, as such, no "change," "beginning of the change," or "wedge issue". Glomdoring never distanced itself from the Taint because it never felt that it was close in the first place.
Firstly, the fact that yourself and Celina, two of Glomdoring's most biggest advocates of "Taint-free Glomdoring/Wyrd not connected", posted after what I had said, only reaffirms the original idea of Glomdoring despising the taint and attempting to distance itself from it.
Secondly, Glomdoring was originally tainted and was for some time. Even after the "Viravain switch-a-roo", people still assumed it was, and it is even debated till now that it in fact is but the Wyrd is just a coverup based on "False memory" antics. It was ever since that day that players, such as yourself, have been in hot pursuit to weed out any "tainty nature hurty" concepts, simply to try and play towards what 'you' believe the Wyrd should be, such as pushing for the removal of the idea of killing fae and converting them to Night because "Fae are nature! We shouldnt be hurting them!". Spare me.
Arcanis Lol no.
Condescension is a poor substitute for wit, especially when you are trying to be condescending to people who have been around since the actual beginning of Glomdoring. You are literally talking to players who have been involved with the Glom-Mag relationship since the conception of said relationship. I've even been involved on both sides of that relationship. So allow me to enlighten "fragile minds."
First, it is as Xenthos said. Glomdoring has never considered itself tainted, and has no particular animosity towards the taint any more so than it possesses animosity towards Celest or other orgs. Glomdoring, as a general consensus, believes itself to be an adaptation as a result of the Taint. Where serenwilde hid and avoided it, Glomdoring endured the taint and changed, the Wyrd being what was left behind as a creation of Viravain after the Taint was repelled. To be very clear, Glomdoring does not care enough about the Taint to drive "wedges" between itself and the Taint. To state that Glomdoring holds the Taint at arms length because of some fear of it or being related to it is really just a simple lack of understanding. Glomdoring does not care about the Taint, Glomdoring endured the taint as far as its members are concerned and are stronger for it, there is nothing to hold at arms length. They do not believe themselves tainted, and do not believe themselves capable of ever being tainted.
The only animosity that sprouts up is when some people try to imply or openly state Glomoring is tainted. That's offensive because Glomdoring believes itself to be superior to the taint. Where Mag was consumed by the taint, Glomdoring became the consumer emerged stronger than ever. It is not a grudge. To Glomdoring, calling them tainted is to call them less than what they are. It's insulting only in that capacity, which is everything to Glomdoring. They do not care about comparisons, they only care you just demeaned them.
Your fundamental understanding of Glom's entire raison d'etre is really flawed.
Any sort of Glom/Mag grudges actually stem from the whole Fainite invasion from Glomdoring's player founding, and then the later attempt by Fainites (me) to repeat it. But that was some 200+ IC years ago and Glom really isn't hung up on it. The only existing grudge that has any substantial weight is the Maeve branding, which has absolutely nothing with what you are arguing. The little grudges and spite politics with Marcella and you, or even Glom stealing that one Mag ship and getting it blown up, is ultimately really inconsequential to long term Glom/Mag relations.
Let's not forget the countless other things, such as your betrayal of Mag to Glomdoring when you left and revealed their plans to Glomdoring. Xenthos and others spying and attempting to counter Magnagora in their endeavors (pre-maeve brand too). Glomdoring refusing to allow admittance to Magnagoran citizens, even to purchase from their commodity's market.
Let's not forget Glomdoring making a fuss when a Geomancer could 'meld' with 'corrupt forest' because it was considerd tainted, which resulted in arguments to have it changed to its own 'un-tainted' environment. Yes...im sure Glomdoring not all has been trying to distance itself from Taint. I mean heavens, Viravain having had to do an elaborate event just to 'purge' taint from Glomdoring and 'convert' it to something else does not at -all- give off that image. Glomdoring and Magnagora have obviously been so very close, and obviously it was just the placing of a brand on Maeve (which let's face it, she had it coming) that only soured things...naturally.
There is an even simpler reason for Glomdoring's dislike of the word "taint" (note that the capitalization is missing intentionally). Back when the first Fainite invasion hit, Viravain could not see Taint.
When these individuals stated that it was Tainted, Viravain heard them saying that Her creation was "tainted". This word has a great deal of negative connotations... and implying that Her creation was anything less than Perfect was not conducive to long-term health and well-being.
That also remains a large part of Glomdoring's aversion to the word. The Forest is perfect, so by definition it cannot be tainted.
@Arcanis the previous comments are exactly why I tagged you in the other thread. You're just plain wrong here and refuse to listen or even understand because you are so dead set on being right.
You are wrong, it's been explained why you are wrong, and you continue to make nonsensical arguments.
You should stop. Now.
Heh. Arcanis obviously cannot tell the difference between IC and OOC.
ICly, from Glomdoring's standpoint, it was never tainted. Period.
OOCly there were lots of debates and the administration chose to change things so it would be grayer and not forcing players into RPing something mechanically indefensible.
@Pectus Well I had no idea she got brought up often...
@Arcanis You logic that they responded validates your view is extremly flawed. You made a statement they feel is wrong (which very well might be.. i do not know the history of it all) thus they brought up counter points.
It was hard to take Glom seriously when they would yelp that it's not tainted, and that I, as a Geomancer at that time, was able to just setup a meld in Glomdoring.
You may be going off the version of history Viravain taught you, but from the historical stand point of Magnagora, it was Tainted and evolved into something else, or else I wouldn't have been able to Meld it.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Heh. Arcanis obviously cannot tell the difference between IC and OOC.
ICly, from Glomdoring's standpoint, it was never tainted. Period.
OOCly there were lots of debates and the administration chose to change things so it would be grayer and not forcing players into RPing something mechanically indefensible.
However, IC != OOC.
I misread that as 'gayer' and nodded knowingly. You had me excited for a minute there.
Note that the historical standpoint of Magnagora (or any other organization) has no impact on the historical standpoint of Glomdoring. Every org has their own version of history / how things happened, and that's great.
It is less great when you argue that the other org's is Wrong just because you say so, though. Glomdoring's stance is exactly what the administrators set up for us as our backstory, so... it is not really possible to legitimately argue that it is invalid.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited May 2015
Damn it, does this mean I'm in Xenthos's entourage now?
So...Celina is my character, and while I go by my character's name on forums, I'm not actually Celina. Though we are, however, both incomprehensibly fabulous. Xenthos and I coming to the "defense" of Glomdoring is, in all actuality, simply explaining Glom's perspective as some of the longest playing Gloms currently active. We, as players, both recognize that the line between taint and Glom is very blurry, but our characters don't give a flying flip about the taint, or that Mag is tainted. Our IC reactions to being called tainted generally include eyerolls and lols, because it's been said by people who rail against Glom as some sort of jab for so long it's really lost all meaning.
Dude, learn to separate IC from OOC. We are explaining our characters and the very fabric of Glomdoring's reality, not what we, the players, understand of the mechanics. We do excoro damage, we're obviously kind of Tainty or taint adjacent. That's not how Glomdoring views it, and your argument was directed at characters rather than players and OOC.
Incidentally, Celina is probably the most pro Mag in Glomdoring right now. So that I'm somehow aligning with Xenthos to form the co captains of the Anti Taint squad is entirely your imagination, or at least deliberately misinterpreting reality to further your point. I can't be both pro Mag and one of those players that reinforces your theory that the players are driving wedges between Tainty Mag and Tainty Glom. Celina is either Pro Mag and trying to rebuild relations or Anti Taint and proving your point. I'll save you the hours of arduous contemplation: Celina is pro Mag.
Modern Glomdoring, the age of the Wyrd, started when Viravain purged the taint from Glomdoring. Which resulted in the perspective that I explained previously. Glomdoring views itself as having consumed and emerged from the Taint, and thusly stand above and apart from the Taint. Simply put, Glomdoring is Perfection by definition. The Taint is not...everything not Glomdoring is not, and as a result, Glomdoring is not tainted, else it would not be perfect. The two are, as far as Glomdoring is concerned, concepts that cannot coexist.
What you're doing is taking OOC things, like mechanical changes to how geo melds work and event decisions, and basically implying they are reflections of what characters believe. Well....no. They are OOC changes, characters do not exist in the world of mechanics and event decision making.
edit: Really, whether or not Glom is tainted, diet taint, or taint zero really is not the point. The point is how does Glom view itself, and whether that view corroborates your position that Glom views the Taint/Mag in a certain way and deliberately disrupts a relationship between the two. The reality is Glomdoring does not view itself as tainted, and never has. Period.
@Celina would it be wrong of me when I write my book onhow present day Glom came to be.. to write that the taint ever existed in the forest? Every news post on it indicates that the taint exisited and was vhanged by Viravain. Just want to be sure i stay true to both A Glom characters rp and the rp of a Scolar.
Well, first you have to define what the Taint even is. Super old-school Glomdoring-folk don't actually see it as even existing as an actual force (but consider it more along the lines of the "Light" of New Celest). That one is a pretty hard line to walk though, and rather in the minority these days.
The more common one now is that the Gloriana was Tainted, but it was purged / repurposed by Viravain when she birthed the Glomdoring from Gloriana's corpse. As such, the Forest was never Tainted but the location where it now resides once was.
@Xenthos the second was more how I saw and understood it.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
You can write about anything you can justify with RP. Even within Glom there are a variety of perspectives and belief systems that aren't always compatible with one another, but they can all be justified with RP.
For example: Celina believes women are stronger than men. She is the best combatant in Glom. Viravain is the Mother of Glomdoring. Mother Night is stronger than Crow. Whether or not women actually are isn't important, the RP behind it is.
Mechanically, OOCly, Glomdoring was probably originally conceived as the Taint version of Serenwilde. Possibly, probably, there was mechanical support for that, with all the vocabulary that comes with it as well, like Tainted Forest environments instead of Wyrden Forest environments etc, and the ability to geo-meld over Glomdoring terrain etc.
However, ICly, the admin have retconned that, and created a different storyline, probably in part due to player demand, and probably in part due to keeping some kind of competitive fairness.
Silvanus' point that whatever can be argued will never change the original game mechanics has a point, but if people are going to continue to bring forward arguments based off old, obsolete, changed mechanics of RL years ago to try and explain how Glomdoring is misguided and trying to "distance" itself from Mag Taint in the modern IC environment, you're going to smash up against the wall of admin-mandated, IC lore. As well as being told you're outright wrong, which, incidentally, you are.
Whatever the IC/OOC retcon/history between the two orgs, there's only one thing that is set in stone: Whatever animosity you feel, Arcanis, rest assured it has nothing to do with the organisational grudges between Glomdoring and Magnagora. The treatment and abuse you receive, both ICly and OOCly, has nothing to do with whether or not Glomdoring likes or dislikes Magnagora (or vice versa), and everything to do with your personal shortcomings.
Whether Mag and Glom ever become friends again, or continue to dance around each other growling, or go into all-out war... it'll never be because of you, or about you. If you're still labouring under the misconception you hold any sort of relevance to the politics of this game, you should probably put yourself out of your misery. There is nothing more sad than watching someone flail around encumbered with luggage about their non-existent importance.
18
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
You can write about anything you can justify with RP. Even within Glom there are a variety of perspectives and belief systems that aren't always compatible with one another, but they can all be justified with RP.
For example: Celina believes women are stronger than men. She is the best combatant in Glom. Viravain is the Mother of Glomdoring. Mother Night is stronger than Crow. Whether or not women actually are isn't important, the RP behind it is.
Ah! Well I just wanted to be sure the rp could work. Thanks for the advice
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
Sigh, allow me to enlighten the fragile minds then. Glomdoring and Magnagora have had enmity between one another ever since Glomdoring attempted to distance itself from the idea of 'Taint' and 'Tainted' which is practically near the beginning. This was the main idea that empowered the entire 'shifting' and 'transforming' concept within Glomdoring, which in turn severed any shared theme (for some anyway, others still see it as tainted) of two organizations. Ever since the beginning of this change, certain players have made it their perrogative to make sure the wedge remains and attempt to change Glomdoring from "Corrupted forest" to "Different type of nature".
If you mention taint in Glomdoring or that it is somehow corrupt or tainted, then you'll likely get your tongue cut out.Think of Glomdoring and Magnagora as two fatal diseases within the same body and are both competing to get the upperhand and be the 'big bad'. Another example, for those bookworms out there, would be from the Wheel of Time series and how the two different sources of 'evil' were actually aggressive to one another and attempted to subvert each other whenever they could.
Glomdoring was, from its very beginning, not considered "tainted" by the players there-- that was the original Viravain's entire concept. There was, as such, no "change," "beginning of the change," or "wedge issue". Glomdoring never distanced itself from the Taint because it never felt that it was close in the first place.
1 xp per kill/gain/etc is no good!
Now the loving teasing aside, what in the heck is the point of all this fighting on this thread? We get it, people don't like some people. People don't like what some people have done. But what's the point of putting it on the tweets thread instead of RPing out the IC bits?
And can we PLEASE stop bringing up Marcella every time something bad happens? She messed up, we get that. But she's good and trying to fix her mistakes. Repeatedly bringing them up is just shitty.
Firstly, the fact that yourself and Celina, two of Glomdoring's most biggest advocates of "Taint-free Glomdoring/Wyrd not connected", posted after what I had said, only reaffirms the original idea of Glomdoring despising the taint and attempting to distance itself from it.
Secondly, Glomdoring was originally tainted and was for some time. Even after the "Viravain switch-a-roo", people still assumed it was, and it is even debated till now that it in fact is but the Wyrd is just a coverup based on "False memory" antics. It was ever since that day that players, such as yourself, have been in hot pursuit to weed out any "tainty nature hurty" concepts, simply to try and play towards what 'you' believe the Wyrd should be, such as pushing for the removal of the idea of killing fae and converting them to Night because "Fae are nature! We shouldnt be hurting them!". Spare me.
Let's not forget the countless other things, such as your betrayal of Mag to Glomdoring when you left and revealed their plans to Glomdoring. Xenthos and others spying and attempting to counter Magnagora in their endeavors (pre-maeve brand too). Glomdoring refusing to allow admittance to Magnagoran citizens, even to purchase from their commodity's market.
Let's not forget Glomdoring making a fuss when a Geomancer could 'meld' with 'corrupt forest' because it was considerd tainted, which resulted in arguments to have it changed to its own 'un-tainted' environment. Yes...im sure Glomdoring not all has been trying to distance itself from Taint. I mean heavens, Viravain having had to do an elaborate event just to 'purge' taint from Glomdoring and 'convert' it to something else does not at -all- give off that image. Glomdoring and Magnagora have obviously been so very close, and obviously it was just the placing of a brand on Maeve (which let's face it, she had it coming) that only soured things...naturally.
When these individuals stated that it was Tainted, Viravain heard them saying that Her creation was "tainted". This word has a great deal of negative connotations... and implying that Her creation was anything less than Perfect was not conducive to long-term health and well-being.
That also remains a large part of Glomdoring's aversion to the word. The Forest is perfect, so by definition it cannot be tainted.
ICly, from Glomdoring's standpoint, it was never tainted. Period.
OOCly there were lots of debates and the administration chose to change things so it would be grayer and not forcing players into RPing something mechanically indefensible.
However, IC != OOC.
@Arcanis You logic that they responded validates your view is extremly flawed. You made a statement they feel is wrong (which very well might be.. i do not know the history of it all) thus they brought up counter points.
You may be going off the version of history Viravain taught you, but from the historical stand point of Magnagora, it was Tainted and evolved into something else, or else I wouldn't have been able to Meld it.
It is less great when you argue that the other org's is Wrong just because you say so, though. Glomdoring's stance is exactly what the administrators set up for us as our backstory, so... it is not really possible to legitimately argue that it is invalid.
The more common one now is that the Gloriana was Tainted, but it was purged / repurposed by Viravain when she birthed the Glomdoring from Gloriana's corpse. As such, the Forest was never Tainted but the location where it now resides once was.