Maligorn vs Shuwin - Seeking Advice!

Maligorn

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2g6dp4e39n7jdj/Maligorn vs Shuyin.html?dl=0

Hey all. This is just the log from the Battlechess thing that happened just now.

Just seeking advice on things I could've done better. You can imagine that I'm feeling pretty inadequate right now for being unable to do much versus Shuyin, even though he wasn't upkeeping truehearing. So far, I've decided that I could've turned cleanse off -- since Illum ectoplasm, as far as I know, only bothers you when you're trying to move, and there isn't really much reason to move around in a battlechess environment (but of course, much more so in a real combat situation).

Anything welcome. Even scathing remarks about how I tried a last ditch Funebre since he wasn't truedeaf.

EDIT: I moved the file, trying to mess with Dropbox. Link is relevant again!

Silvanus

Chaos Karma blessings are basically a must if you want to stand a chance against an Illuminati.

Killing someone that is capable in three minutes is hard regardless of class, especially one that provides as much hindering as an Illuminati. It's not a very fair setup to begin with.

Maligorn

Karmic blessings didn't even cross my mind. Thanks!

Dys

The sludgeworm mucus trips you sometimes when you move, the ectoplasm from the nose delays balance recovery. You wouldn't want to turn that one off but fine to not cure mucus unless you're moving.

Shaddus

Looks like Illuminati is perfectly balanced.

Elanorwen

Dys said:

The sludgeworm mucus trips you sometimes when you move, the ectoplasm from the nose delays balance recovery. You wouldn't want to turn that one off but fine to not cure mucus unless you're moving.

Ignoring mucous won't save the day, not by far. Especially with the bucketload of random mental afflictions, and the amount of aeon/entangles being thrown. You manage a couple attacks every 10-20 seconds, the rest of the time all you're doing is curing, and even then, your attacks are at double eq/bal due to sluggishness. There's no slowing them down, unless they're really stupid and have no idea how disloyalty works and you manage to stick it on them.

Synkarin

Not sure why you're commenting on this a month later, but lets clear this up.

Not ignoring mucus is going to get you killed, fast, so I'd say it saves the day, because getting killed ends your day pretty quickly. 

Maligorn

At least, for now. All cleanse cures must go!

Lerad

Just a minor tangent.

The problem with cleanse cures like ecto and mucus and sap is not the concept of a cleanse cure. The concept of a cure outside of traditional curative balances that take up normal balance is not inherently unbalanced or unstrategic or unfun. The problem is when the afflictions are potent hinder afflictions, and are also stackable.

For example, the concept of cleanse curing slickness is perfectly fine - it puts a degree of choice into the dynamics of lock curing that is not seen in the other IRE games - other IRE lockbreakers (old aetolia fitness, for example) are usable without actual balance, which means using them to break locks do not incur a cost in offensive momentum. At the same time, slickness in Lusternia is not an affliction tied into a purely cleanse cure, it has also a proper curative option, which means you don't have to use cleanse to cure it unless you're locked. And lastly, it running on balance means that you can choose to remove a high priority affliction without losing curative balance, but instead losing offensive momentum, and that it can also be disrupted with other afflictions like a regen-cured prone. All of these combined contribute to make Lusternian lock mechanics a robust system of give-and-take, and emphasize the importance of prioritization which can, and should, be customized according to the situation for optimal performance.

However, afflictions like ecto and sap lock down the opponent's offensive potential, and essentially remove the choice from the victim's hands. Because these afflictions are also cleanse-only, it means the victim has no option to sacrifice curative balance to maintain offensive momentum. Even then, just ecto alone did not create a significantly large imbalance because it used to be the only affliction of that kind, and was only stackable with sap via cooperation from another org. With ecto going out to more classes, and the introduction of other cleanse-only hinders that stack with ecto, however, its presence and effect on combat has become not just more noticeable but also more potent. This is similar (though works slightly dfferently in effect, thanks to invoke summer) to writhe-stacks as well, though that's another conversation in its own right.

Whether or not the cleanse cure will remain post-overhaul is something I believe can still be explored - its presence or absence will add to or detract from the overhaul goals only in terms of how it is implemented. A stacking system of hindering, cleanse-only afflictions will make combat frustrating, I feel, but a more moderate implementation similar to its interaction with slickness can, perhaps, add depth to the scene. Its removal, of course, will prevent such problems in the first place, but might well reduce the depth of green-lock mechanics in Lusternia. Going on the same line of thought, it also is theoretically possible for afflictions like ecto and mucus to remain... given that tweaks are made to how they interact with combat. A reduction in offensive lockdown effect, or the introduction of alternate cures, can all mitigate some of the root causes of their debilitating combination. However, tweaking these afflictions in this way will also make a fundamental change to how certain classes function - nihilists, most notably. Well, given that the plan as it stands IS to remove ecto, thinking along this line might well be a moot point. It's an effective solution, afterall. But the idea that these afflictions can be balanced is not inherently flawed.

Saesh

When I last touched base with the envoys, the general consensus was to remove cleanse as a cure and move the afflictions we are keeping (sap) to one of the cure balances. My impression so far is that no one really likes or enjoys cleanse as a cure.

Lerad

Personally, that's a pity from the point of view of a lock user, but well, I'm sure something can be thought up to make locks as fun as they are now without the baggage of problems the current cleansing system comes with. I'm definitely on board with a proper curative to handle sap. That's at least loads better than it is now already.

Saesh

The hope is that locks will be more strategic affliction stacking so that the lock afflictions will stick, rather than the current systen that is just a specific set of afflictions to secure the lock.