Amended Combat Overhaul!

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  • I concur.
    Is also the Shintar.
  • Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • Ciaran said:
    Is the thought to not mess with envoy reports all the time, or something else?
    A big difference I think between something like smash brothers, and Lusternia is that there is no cost to switching or trying new characters/skill choices.
  • Mostly relevant as a comment on kneejerk reactions to balance adjustments.

    (which I myself have been very guilty of in the past)
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • Could we get a list of all spiritual afflictions, much like we got a list of all mental afflictions, as well as which ones will be replacing what?
    image
  • edited December 2014
    Estarra posted one a while back, though we've tweaked it a bit since, so:

    Mental

    Spiritual

    Anorexia (can't eat)

    Slickness (can't apply)

    Clumsiness (also replaces loneliness) (DONE)

    Aeon Curse

    Confusion (also replaces agoraphobia, amplifyphobia) (DONE)

    Disloyalty

    Addiction (also replaces gluttony) (DONE)

    Egovice

    Epilepsy (DONE)

    Faeriefire

    Hallucinations (also replaces claustrophobia, vestiphobia) (DONE)

    Healthleech (also replaces Void)

    Sensitivity (also replaces shyness, masochism) (DONE)

    Peace (also replaces lover's curse, combined with pacified)

    Recklessness (also replaces vapors) (DONE)

    Powerspikes

    Stupidity (also replaces Daydreaming, narcolepsy) (DONE)

    Paralysis (also replaces ectoplasm, pox)

    Paranoia (need to keep this to fight bards/demesne users) (also replaces dizziness, vertigo) (DONE)

    Achromatic Aura

     

    Manabarbs (also replaces omen)

    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • No, I mean for the spiritual afflictions, the ones that are being changed now (aurics and whatnot).
    image
  • Spiritual afflictions are on the right side of that post.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    He means, what all current afflictions fall into the umbrella of spiritual? For instance, vapours was a 'mental' aff under the new system, and erased/folded in as part of mental aff changes.
  • I think what they are saying is they don't think the list of spiritual afflictions is really that short :)

    The current list provided gives:
    Omen, Manabarbs, Achromatic Aura, Pox, Ectoplasm, Paralysis, Powerspikes, Peace, Lover's curse, pacified, health leech, void, faerifire, egovice, disloyalty, and aeon, and slickness
  • edited December 2014
    All new afflictions will be bundled up in to groups of around 10. Spiritual currently has 11, so it's as planned. More will be added into each group as we filter through the one off "unique" afflictions that we decide we need to keep.

    Vapors was replaced with blackout, so I'm not sure what you mean.

    Edit: the replacements are on the list. There just aren't as many as the mental tree. Notably because I didn't want to go around replacing things with bard afflictions and peace. Spiritual is a fairly potent tree, for the most part.
  • Apologies if this's been covered and I missed it, but as it stands Eroee's gonna have peace on both fixed and mutable. I'm in no position to call that problematic or not from a balance standpoint, but I am curious if one of the two will be changed. Or is that an envoy thing?
  • Envoy thing.
  • Afflictions aren't necessarily being assigned to the various categories based on what category they fall into in the non-Overhaul system (e.g. clumsiness wasn't a mental affliction pre-Overhaul, paralysis was not spiritual, etc.), and further, there isn't really a clean distinction in affliction classifications regardless. The closest that exists is the idea of "mental" afflictions, but even this isn't a nice divide; different subroutines consider (slightly) different sets of afflictions as mental affs, for example. The best you'll get for a definite list spiritual afflictions is probably the union of the horehound and reishi cure lists, though this is distinct from e.g. the list for FOCUS SPIRIT, which has a different purpose entirely anyway.

    I suppose I'm not certain about the question being asked: are you all curious about what afflictions are in the spiritual aff list for the Overhaul, or which are not-at-all-related-to-the-Overhaul-but-still-spiritual afflictions? If the former, see the table I posted above. If the latter, see the beginning of this post.
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • If we have 11, can faeriefire just go away? Probably one of the least used affs (used by.. druids and wiccans maybe to track actions under hinders?). 

    Also, if we have mental and spiritual affs, what is the other two cures? Body and Form?
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Malarious said:
    If we have 11, can faeriefire just go away? Probably one of the least used affs (used by.. druids and wiccans maybe to track actions under hinders?). 

    Also, if we have mental and spiritual affs, what is the other two cures? Body and Form?
    Also runists going for death prophecy, because it tends to be ignored more often than not.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • edited December 2014
    Malarious said:
    If we have 11, can faeriefire just go away? Probably one of the least used affs (used by.. druids and wiccans maybe to track actions under hinders?). 

    Also, if we have mental and spiritual affs, what is the other two cures? Body and Form?
    Internal Physical, External Physical.
  • I don't see any issue keeping faeriefire. It may be niche but it has an important niche.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2014
    Its niche is going to be somewhat lost once it's more readily cured, probably. People cure it now, but many ignore it because of the high mana cost to do so, and its relative harmlessness in most situations, at least when compared to the mana loss. Once it's hindering you from curing other afflictions, it'll be more of a curing priority.
  • The niche I was referring to was tracking writhes, specifically for sap locks. Allergies may have made this a moot tactic but I'm not at the point where I want to cut off my foot in case that should change. 

     

    Exploitation of automatic focus spirit isn't really on my radar. That has more to do with systems than the affliction.

  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Aren't we getting rid of sap? I thought all cleanse cures were going.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • edited December 2014

    A lot of cleanse cures are going away. Sap is not going away, though I would like to see it converted to one of the cures. Though it would carry over cure restrictions that it currently has unless we come up with a better idea.

  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Man we had this chat on envoys and you said 'down with sap' 

    (Envoys): Saesh says "Down with sap!"

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • Sometimes it's the wine talking. Wait, is that even a real quote?

     

    But in all seriousness the conversation a recall was removing the cleanse cure alltogether, including some of the cleanse specific afflictions, but some of the afflictions that are important to specific guild functionality can't just be removed. Such as sap. So while I'm a-okay with moving it to the physical tree or something, I can't just wipe it. I don't discourage the envoys taking up the replace sap project if you guys want to.

  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2014
    Saesh said:

    The niche I was referring to was tracking writhes, specifically for sap locks. Allergies may have made this a moot tactic but I'm not at the point where I want to cut off my foot in case that should change. 

     

    Exploitation of automatic focus spirit isn't really on my radar. That has more to do with systems than the affliction.

    Right, I know what faeriefire is useful for :P. It is still a really necessary thing with allergies, as is doing other things than entangling (against intelligent players/systems).

    I also wasn't talking about automatic focus spiriting necessarily, but how easy the affliction is to cure and what that means for its effects. Faeriefire would lose most of its general effect, and be only really useful for sap (and for RNG filler for aeon/runies, of course).

    What would happen to point cleanse type curing of sap? I hate a lot of things about that particular mechanic, but without it, there will be riots in the streets once the dust settles.

    I can't really come up with a potential scenario where anyone wins concerning sap and the overhaul, to be honest. Druids will need a MAJOR downgrading to compensate for how things will work, which will make them ever more abysmally reliant on a single gimmicky affliction. 1v1 druids will be even more utterly unstoppable, in groups they'll become even weaker. Those who get unlucky, or have teammates who won't just watch (as many have learned to do) for the druid to be alone with someone and immediately run over to cleanse-equivalent  that person will be dead with no recourse and little ability to do anything pray to the almighty RNGsus to save them, as things will increasingly be dependant on luck. Bad news all around.
  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    Saesh said:

    Sometimes it's the wine talking. Wait, is that even a real quote?

     

    But in all seriousness the conversation a recall was removing the cleanse cure alltogether, including some of the cleanse specific afflictions, but some of the afflictions that are important to specific guild functionality can't just be removed. Such as sap. So while I'm a-okay with moving it to the physical tree or something, I can't just wipe it. I don't discourage the envoys taking up the replace sap project if you guys want to.

    So in other words, those of us with soap will no longer need it and will receive a refund potentially.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Right.

     It'd be cool to still have golden soap around though, as a drastically cheaper artifact, allowing people to wash themselves outside of a river (or nature user).
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Enyalida said:
    Right.

     It'd be cool to still have golden soap around though, as a drastically cheaper artifact, allowing people to wash themselves outside of a river (or nature user).
    Or get rid of stink. Is there an actual point to that affliction beyond... hey, this person stinks?

    Add artisan-made bathrooms to wash away the grime better? Magic us up something akin to hunger/sleep requirements where you need to take a bath at least once every 2 days or start stinking up to high heaven up to and including applying influence oils does nothing for you?
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • Stink also interacts with tracking or something I believe, in general it is not used.
  • edited December 2014
    Malarious said:
    Stink also interacts with tracking or something I believe, in general it is not used.
    Tracking - Track, which sends your companion to one room adjacent to the target so you can unite or path to it. Requires stink to use, as well as being in the local area, and is generally useless so nobody uses it. Stink traps aren't worth the time or commodities, and if you want to do that, you can use a magic map or something to get the room num. Or if you actually want to use your companion, bond seek actually has your companion track the person without requiring stink at all, and since that requires same area as well, you can just bond move your companion away and unite for the same effect.
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