New player. Love the game world, but some concerns about PvE.

Eldane

Hello everyone. I tried a forum search before posting, but to no avail.

I have fallen in love with this game world. Everything about it is captivating. The races, guilds, schools of magic, cosmology, cities/communes, lore both official and player made... and so much more that has drawn me in. It is difficult to create a living world, but I think Lusternia has succeeded in this. However, I am more of a PvE/RP player who finds himself in this awesome world that seems designed so heavily around group PvP/RP. I know about the questing and influence systems, which are great, but I read in my guild's hunting helpfile that many of my skills apply only on other players. As a bard I have one attack that I am meant to spam when I am "bashing", a word that makes it sound as though PvE is tacked on as an afterthought (an interesting reversal). I really don't want to be limited to PvP in order to utilize all of these interesting abilities.

So, have I missed something? If I do plan to stay in this world will I have something PvE orientated to look forward to, or will I continue to be as limited as I see myself now? In any case, are there classes "better" for PvE than others?

Lorina

Oh, do not feel you are simply limited to your Music bard attack, for now! Most guilds(classes) will learn a new "bashing" skill later on in their primary specialization. So out of the gate, your character will have about two main attack skills. Stacked on top of this is passive abilities that will supplement your bashing, such as your specialization in Music's passives...

For me, I have Starhymn... So as long as I stand in water, and play a certain imbue stanza, things cannot shield. I also regenerate health and mana, with willpower and endurance slightly... Which is fantastic. You will love the boons that come with bard bashing, but yes... You are limited on attacks.

That isn't to say you can't receive other attacks. There are certain special items you can buy if you are truly dedicated. Many people buy whips that use 100% of an element...such as fire, poison, or divinus damage.

As for classes being better at PvE, there really is no set one. Many argue that Monks are one of the most enjoyable, but for me personally, I enjoyed Mage bashing because I could alter my attack element and generate a forcefield that drains ego instead of health! 

In my opinion, stick with bard for just a bit, and you will enjoy it! Once you specialize in Music, you will find the experience of bashing enjoyable!

(( Side note: Welcome to Lusternia! ))

Turnus

For the most part. You will just use one attack on NPCs while bashing. Which skill you use may vary depending on their resistances etc, but for the most part it will be one attack not cycling through different abilities.

That said, there is still plenty if skills, quests, and consumables that buff you. So there is plenty that goes into making you able to push yourself so there is a good degree of know-how and skill that goes into bashing, but much of it is prep work rather than an intricate chess game against mobs.

The majority of abilities are designed for pk. But there's still to a lot of rp-abilities, utility, and buffs available too.

Eldane

Thank you both for the response and thank you for the welcome, Lorina. I've actually been eyeing monk! I may give it a try as their skillset seems a bit more action orientated. I won't neglect my bard (Spirisinger), though, if I intend to stay around.

Alright, so a single attack ability with passive effects going on in the background. If there's a bit of thought and preparation that goes into it then I think I could enjoy it. Providing there are some real challenges to prepare for. Is there any PvE content that requires a group or at least really powerful gear?

I am glad to hear about all the RP tools, too. Crafting looks interesting.

Marcella

PvE content that requires groups are a lot of Demigod-level bashing areas, like the astral plane. 

Shaddus

As for "powerful gear", there's artifacts you can buy to help yourself, but there's really nothing a bard needs to buy that is super expensive beyond basics. Good robes (armour), enchantments, refills, herbs and the like.

Munsia

Wouldn't say it's a terrible reversal unless you're only use to graphical games. This seems to be the standard for most of IRE games. You have a standard bashing technique then a million ways to fight someone else. In the end these games primarily (combatively) focus on PVP, with PvE being a means to an ends. Rp being it's own subset outside of pve. 

Chade

Yes, PvE is fairly limited in Lusternia when compared to PvP. Coming from a heavily influenced IRE background for MUDs (Achaea since 1999 and Lusternia from 2003 onwards) I never really noticed it until I started experimenting with Lithmeria which has bloody awesome PvE where you can use all your skills for bashing.

It is fairly monotonous in comparison to some PvE systems but Lusty still has loads to offer!

Karlach

Your offence in PvE is exceptionally limited action wise, you'll stick to one of a couple of attacks, which may alternate dependant on what you're fighting. There are means to increase it but these are all passive and pre-applied rather than active elements during combat.

What gives PvE any challenge is your mitigation of both damage and in a lot of places worth bashing, your ability to handle afflictions. There's very little interaction during hunting itself, unless you're trying something new and above your usual level of challenge, where careful management of your health may cause you to flee, fly or use a short term cure (things that you tend to obtain much later in the game as your character progresses) the most part is in planning your setup and execution, then always looking for more rewarding targets and how to kill them safer and faster.

Xenthos

One thing to keep in mind- certain organizations / players don't really consider "bashing" an acceptable term for what they do, and almost always use "hunting" instead.  Bashing is a term that was ported over from other IREs, but as you say, it kind of degrades the whole process down and makes it seem an afterthought.  I can assure you that it's really not, the game started out entirely based around both killing people and things (with, of course, the lovely roleplay).

Many new things have been added over the years, but hunting has been and remains a staple for many of us; it's one of the things that drew us in (I'm personally not big on the PvP, and am more of a roleplay / PvE enthusiast myself).

As others have stated, it's less about the attack you use, and more about learning your own strengths, learning how to off-set your weaknesses, and how best to take out a specific creature (or, better yet, a pile of them!)  You can learn abilities which increase your damage, making you more effective at murdering things,and you can learn skills which help keep you alive long enough to actually use them.  There's always room for growth and getting better, and that's one of the things I love.

Chade

Suppose I've been around IREs too long but I will always think of and refer to PvE as bashing. 

I completely understand the OPs point, Lusternia's system is incredibly limited when compared to other games - although the addition of influencing makes it much better than other IRE games. Very little thought or planning needs to go into most PvE and rudimentary coding skills can build you a fire and forget bashing system for most areas of the game. A small number require certain builds or artifacts but I'd never recommend Lusternia based solely on its PvE. The PvP, RP and particularly the Questing system on the other hand are major draws for me.

I'd love to see a system put in place which is similar to the one in Lithmeria where you can use all of your skills for PvE but I doubt it'll ever happen since it'd require a complete rewrite - but being able to kill NPCs with wound levels or burn levels would be amazing.

To the OP, if you like PvE interactions do explore Lusternia's quest system, there are some incredible quests in the game that are lots of fun to figure out. My very first interactions with Lusternia were the Stewartsville quest and the Newton quests, they're what drew me to the game and I love figuring out how to complete new quests. I've been lax on that recently but I'm definitely going to get back into it!

Xenthos

On an IC level, it makes very little sense to call something "bashing" when you are singing it to death with music, or burning it to death in a burst of flame.  The only real time that it makes sense is when you are a Bonecrusher (or a similar attack from other classes) who is actually literally bashing things to death, as far as I'm concerned.

Chade

Xenthos said:

On an IC level, it makes very little sense to call something "bashing" when you are singing it to death with music, or burning it to death in a burst of flame.  The only real time that it makes sense is when you are a Bonecrusher (or a similar attack from other classes) who is actually literally bashing things to death), as far as I'm concerned.

I was a Knight for 7-8 RL years, a Bonecrusher for most of them  

I do agree with what you're saying though - I should get out of old habits. These days I'd be better off calling it "burning stuff"

Other than that, I stand by my post though. Lusternia has a massive number of draws, and its PvE is better than any other IRE I've played but it's still limited and simplistic when compared to the PvP system. Which is by far the most complicated of any MUD I've played.

I will reiterate my plug for the questing system though. You can tell a great deal of thought, planning and execution goes into building new quests and areas. Lusternian quests continue to push the boat out. I'm still amazed by the sheer depth and complexity of Icewynd 2 years after its release.

Xenthos

I don't object to the rest of your post, as a note.  I fully agree with encouraging the exploration of the questing system.  Admittedly, some of the quests drive me batty, but on the whole it's a great thing to explore (and there are so -many- of them).  They also provide a great deal of depth to the game, and you can find out a lot of lore just by doing the quests and talking to the mobs involved.

Eldane

Thank you all for clarifying the PvE situation. Hunting is monotonous right now, but what sustains me and perhaps overrides this fact is the allure of the game world. I'm not sure I could give up on it now even if I wanted to! I'll look forward to some challenges later.

It is curious though that PvE combat would be this boring when players in early and especially mid game are doing so much of it. I would have expected a game that was given so much care to its world design to have considered how players would be spending that time. Granted, there are probably tons of other things to do beyond combat, but combat is pretty much the core of any MUD. 

Eldane

I will definitely be dipping my toes into the questing system soon! Not counting Newton.

Xenthos

I suppose it depends a lot on what you hunt.  I generally do not find it that boring, but I'm also doing things like tweaking and adjusting code, trying harder mobs, and finding ways to kill faster when I can.  As I said, there is always room for improvement; when you turn hunting into "just another task," I think it will be quite dull for you.  Give yourself attainable goals (such as essence offering plateaus), and work towards those.  Don't give yourself leveling goals (those tend to get rather aggravating, because you are checking your score every 5 seconds and it makes progress seem so slow).

Chade

Eldane said:

I will definitely be dipping my toes into the questing system soon! Not counting Newton.

Definitely worthwhile. Please don't be put off by what I've said, it's a great game and you won't regret playing.

Everiine

Who is it that has done every quest, is that Ixchilgal? Something 150 quests in the game?

Xenthos

Nobody has done every quest in the game, but Ixion has done the most (to my knowledge).

Cyndarin

PVE is very repetitive and simplistic. That being said, if you want complicated and dynamic bashing....why don't you try PVP?

Eldane

Celina said:

PVE is very repetitive and simplistic. That being said, if you want complicated and dynamic bashing....why don't you try PVP?

PvP is generally more stressful than rewarding for me. If I'm in the mood for PvP it's always in an MMO where I am more in control of my character. It's an entirely different mindset. I prefer more relaxing game play in which I have less worry of bruised egos or in-game events spilling into reality. That rarely ends well.

Moi

Eldane said:

Thank you both for the response and thank you for the welcome, Lorina. I've actually been eyeing monk! I may give it a try as their skillset seems a bit more action orientated. I won't neglect my bard (Spirisinger), though, if I intend to stay around.

Alright, so a single attack ability with passive effects going on in the background. If there's a bit of thought and preparation that goes into it then I think I could enjoy it. Providing there are some real challenges to prepare for. Is there any PvE content that requires a group or at least really powerful gear?

I am glad to hear about all the RP tools, too. Crafting looks interesting.

Most of the high level PvE content is also PvP. Demon Lord raids, Domoth battles, godrealm raids, that sort of thing. Essentially, get a group together and go kill the other side's NPCs until their combatants turn up for a fight.

For pure PvE, you might want to try questing (as previously mentioned) or Aetherhunting, which is a ship-based group PvE thing.

Turnus

Disagree with the above example of what's high end PvE, those are just an extension of PvP with mob killing as a filler. That said. You can be jumped in many of the high end PvE areas, but you generally won't be constantly hounded especially if you're not a combatant.

Everiine

Unless it's an area like the Undervault, and you have made it your mission to PvE the Kepheras or Illithoids, in which case, people will definitely come after you.

Xenthos

Everiine said:

Unless it's an area like the Undervault, and you have made it your mission to PvE the Kepheras or Illithoids, in which case, people will definitely come after you.

Kephera and Illithoid are not really high-end PvE.

Karlach

Raising Zenobia/Cthoglogg isn't high end PvE.

Now if you raised the Soulforge however...

Silvanus

Don't skip the Newton quests.

Ixion (who has 122 Honours lines) wishes he could get those.

Maligorn

Well, he could, if he pulled a Skye.

Cyndarin

High end bashing tends to involve areas where PVPers and griefers (me) will come after you. I don't really understand. Desiring a PvE system that is complex and dynamic is basically asking for it to resemble pvp. In which case just pvp. Unless you are seeking something without risk, which is cool. However, I can also understand why the admin don't spend any time creating such a system. Complexity for the sake of complexity isn't a system that's going to attract a lot of people.

Rivius

I guess they just want bashing to be more stimulating. Right now it's pressing two buttons over and over ad nauseum with no real variation outside of maybe needing to run and heal for some of the bigger things. Bashing in general is something you have no choice but to do in order to level up, so invariably you spend very many hours doing it, whether you like it or not. I imagine if you don't like the grind very much, which you're forced to take part in, the reason is that it's not very stimulating.