Newbie ur'Guard with questions.

Maldoror

I have just created an ur'Guard warrior because the history surrounding Magnagora and the general atmosphere of the place appeals to me most out of all the cities/communes. I did a little bit of reading regarding warriors before creating my character but I'd be happy to learn more from people with experience playing them.

I've initially created Maldoror as an orclach mainly because it seemed to have the best stats in relation to the rest of the so called 'recommended' races that the ur'Guard has. However, I really don't have the urge to roleplay as a hulking orc, most probably down to the preconceptions of orcs from other books/games. On the other hand the viscanti have interested me the most lore wise and tend to represent everything about Magnagora itself.

Taking all that aside for the minute though, I'd like to know if viscanti is going to be viable long term both in terms of bashing and of course PVP down the road. It is a recommended race so I suppose that should give me my answer, but honestly it is doing nothing to satisfy my curiosity. I should probably take into account the fact that I won't be in any great rush to invest in mass amounts of credits/lessons so that should be a factor considering I won't have the amount of lessons needed to make other races viable easily.

If I went viscanti which specialization should I aim to go for given the above information? Similarly what about orclach, even though like I said I cringe at the thought of roleplaying one..

Silvanus

You'll be outclassed as a Viscanti. Decent bashing race for higher levels due to the resistances, but in combat, you'll end up being Manakill bait (especially with the lesser sipping). Orclach is probably the same, and you'll not be a great influencer as either race. So you will need to switch eventually.

I'm not sure if Aslaran is one of the recommended races, but that's what a lot of warriors are because of the balance recovery is to hard to pass up.

The best bet is to figure out what race you want to Roleplay as, and buy that Hat for 50 dingbats(down the road), and then switch to a more profitable race. And has a decent enough charisma to make influencing a viable option.

A lot of the specializations don't really matter depending on the race, not that many have a bonus. More along the lines of what you want to choose, a lot have different kill methods and some are better at PvP than the rest (Axelord, Pureblade), while one is better than the others at bashing (Cavaliers).

Hiriako

Speaking as a long term warrior, I'll say that it is possible to be effective with any weapon, though each type will have an advantage over the other. Silvanus is correct on most of the benefits and weaknesses. I will say that Orclachs make for solid warriors, but you do have weak influence and weak mana. There are compensations. Viscanti are very much an RP race, as their weaknesses overwhelm many of the benefits. It's hard to get over a sip malus.

With that said: There -is- a major combat overhaul in the works, which will rework how races work from the top down. Second, there is also the nature of groups, where often hitting with some potency and knowing how to avoid death will do you more good than anything race-wise. Aslaran, as powerful as they are with balance recovery, will also have the detriment of an herb malus, which can hinder.

So, with all that, here's my question for you. Which races appeal to you, and why? We can go through them and work over pros and cons, including the RP aspects.

Karlach

I'm not sure if I should just wait for Marcella to give you the full sales pitch on the Orclach supremacy race but I'll bite.

Mechanics wise, Aslaran are the master race, while levelling you'll find yourself a tad low on strength and hitpoints, whereas Orclach are a walking truck, but for PK you'll certainly find it a lot easier to survive (though at very low skill investment level you'll get damaged out a fair bit before surge) Personally I recommend sticking with Orclach as you level, their base HP, resistances, regeneration and bonus to two-handed swords is really great for levelling with (and pureblade is a really good specialisation when you get into Combat, regardless of race in the end) by hunting. When you really do want to jump into the PK side of things, you've always that free reincarnate you can spend.

Viscanti are just a terrible race, I know people who play them because of the RP (because character wise they're awesome) but they have all the mechanical appeal of a chocolate radiator.

As to the character nature of Orclach, they really aren't your a-typical Warhammer/40k brutes, I really suggest reading the Elder war series regarding Orlachmar and the Vernal wars regarding Urlach. You've a mix of nobility and tactical knowledge, mixed with cunning and the will to win "by any means necessary." They're more like Warcraft Orcs, not WoW Orcs (and certainly not Peons) but a mix between the violent martial nature of the Warsong Clan, the spiritual reverence of their ancestors of the Frostwolf clan and the lack of moral guidance and excellent use of underhanded strategy that comes with the Shadowmoon Clan. Orclach are certainly not your generic mindless brutes, some people play that way, and some people give the perception of their character being that way, but it's not the only way to do it.

Maldoror

Hiriako said:

Speaking as a long term warrior, I'll say that it is possible to be effective with any weapon, though each type will have an advantage over the other. Silvanus is correct on most of the benefits and weaknesses. I will say that Orclachs make for solid warriors, but you do have weak influence and weak mana. There are compensations. Viscanti are very much an RP race, as their weaknesses overwhelm many of the benefits. It's hard to get over a sip malus.

With that said: There -is- a major combat overhaul in the works, which will rework how races work from the top down. Second, there is also the nature of groups, where often hitting with some potency and knowing how to avoid death will do you more good than anything race-wise. Aslaran, as powerful as they are with balance recovery, will also have the detriment of an herb malus, which can hinder.

So, with all that, here's my question for you. Which races appeal to you, and why? We can go through them and work over pros and cons, including the RP aspects.

Yeah, orclach does seem a very viable warrior race and from looking at other peoples HONOURS that is apparent. However, I just can't get over how I'd be able to express Maldoror IC as one of them, which is down to me as a player not as a character.

From what both you and @Silvanus have said about viscanti it does leave me somewhat dejected about the whole 'certain races to certain classes'. I think that could all be alleviated by making stats independant from races! However, in the here and now I'd be happy to sacrifice high level combat prowess for bashing/RP potential. With the mentioned combat overhaul that would certainly raise questions as to how effectively viscanti would become in the long run, but if there isn't the information available I can't base my choice on a what-if, if you get my meaning.

Viscanti has appealed to me the most in all honesty, even given their stats. There is a lot I am willing to look past to get involved in the lore of the world, but the flipside to the coin is I also want to have a fun experience. I don't want to be constantly set back in all areas just because I want to be steadfast in my race choice. I don't know, the whole idea leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I think other IRE games have made better choices in regards to race/class, which by and large has been the detachment of racial stats from races. Again, I'll try to keep to the here and now though.

Xenthos

You can buy a race hat though, which allows you to roleplay as any race you want.

Zalana

Personally, I am viscanti. Have been since day one. No I don't do PvP worth a damn, no surprise there. But since I play to RP first and foremost, I don't care much. Daevos is also viscanti, without the racechange stuff, and does pretty good in pvp. Course he has enough artis to make your head hurt but lol.

For me, there's just a simple rule.

What do you play for? RP? Or for mechanics?

If you go for mechanics, go for the cat. They rock.

RP? Orchlach and Viscanti both have a huge RP potential in mag, just gotta DO it.

Maldoror

Karlach said:

I'm not sure if I should just wait for Marcella to give you the full sales pitch on the Orclach supremacy race but I'll bite.

Mechanics wise, Aslaran are the master race, while levelling you'll find yourself a tad low on strength and hitpoints, whereas Orclach are a walking truck, but for PK you'll certainly find it a lot easier to survive (though at very low skill investment level you'll get damaged out a fair bit before surge) Personally I recommend sticking with Orclach as you level, their base HP, resistances, regeneration and bonus to two-handed swords is really great for levelling with (and pureblade is a really good specialisation when you get into Combat, regardless of race in the end) by hunting. When you really do want to jump into the PK side of things, you've always that free reincarnate you can spend.

Viscanti are just a terrible race, I know people who play them because of the RP (because character wise they're awesome) but they have all the mechanical appeal of a chocolate radiator.

As to the character nature of Orclach, they really aren't your a-typical Warhammer/40k brutes, I really suggest reading the Elder war series regarding Orlachmar and the Vernal wars regarding Urlach. You've a mix of nobility and tactical knowledge, mixed with cunning and the will to win "by any means necessary." They're more like Warcraft Orcs, not WoW Orcs (and certainly not Peons) but a mix between the violent martial nature of the Warsong Clan, the spiritual reverence of their ancestors of the Frostwolf clan and the lack of moral guidance and excellent use of underhanded strategy that comes with the Shadowmoon Clan. Orclach are certainly not your generic mindless brutes, some people play that way, and some people give the perception of their character being that way, but it's not the only way to do it.

It has to be said that Aslaran has even less of an interest to me than Orclach and the whole deal of a master race is just a bit meh! Perhaps I have misunderstood the Orchlach as a race, but like I said, that is more than likely just because of my own preconceptions of the race. I will definitely read into them and hopefully try and foster a better idea of how they fit into the scope of Lusternia.

Xenthos said:

You can buy a race hat though, which allows you to roleplay as any race you want.

I could but then again I am going to have to focus whatever credits I get into increasing my skills. From what I read the warrior class doesn't come cheaply!

Zalana said:

Personally, I am viscanti. Have been since day one. No I don't do PvP worth a damn, no surprise there. But since I play to RP first and foremost, I don't care much. Daevos is also viscanti, without the racechange stuff, and does pretty good in pvp. Course he has enough artis to make your head hurt but lol.

For me, there's just a simple rule.

What do you play for? RP? Or for mechanics?

If you go for mechanics, go for the cat. They rock.

RP? Orchlach and Viscanti both have a huge RP potential in mag, just gotta DO it.

I have always been RP first in any MUD I've played, IRE or not but at the same time I have to try and reign myself and think upon it solely as a game and think, what would be an enjoyable and fun experience to play as? When I say 'play', I mean mechanically of course.

Zalana

Well, as I said. I have never been anything but. And I love the hell outta playing. But then, I don't do much beyond bashing mobs, and a bit of influencing (and you wanna talk stubborn doing that as a viscanti? LOL that's the big one). I have fun. I interact, do what I need to bashing wise. May not be able to do a Thoros or Karlach and ur'bash the world away, but I get by.

Xenthos

Maldoror said:

Xenthos said:

You can buy a race hat though, which allows you to roleplay as any race you want.

Race hats are 50 dingbats actually.  I do not know if it is an option for you, but you could look into a membership (which is very cost effective), and a side-effect of the membership is some dingbats too.  That is a good way to get a race hat on the side as a bonus.

Lavinya

Viscanti do feel woefully inferior, stat wise. I played as one for 4 years. However, it never stopped me from bashing, it never stopped me from influencing, it never stopped me from assisting in defense and even sometimes offense. Was I the best race I could possibly be, stat wise? No. Was I still able to play the game? Absolutely. And I had the really enjoyable rp to go with it.

Since then I have bought a changeling cameo, and experienced what it is like to have better stats for things (ie influencing with 23 charisma is faaaaar different than influencing with 17 charisma. Both were doable, but one is more effective than the other.) That being said, I still sometimes change to viscanti willingly. (I have a race hat, as far as my rp goes, I am and always will be viscanti).

I suppose the point is, you -can- play as any race. Some will net you better results or make things a little easier (or harder), but unless you want to have the ultimate optimisation of stats (most people do), you can play as whichever race you prefer and still dabble in every aspect of the game.

Hiriako

When it comes down to it, you can be effective as almost any race. There are certain ones that just are not going to be as effective. A mugwump makes for a poor warrior or bard. With that said:

Every class gets boosts within their skills to augment their stats. Warriors get things in Athletics to increase strength and constitution. Monks get things within Stealth (some monks) and Acrobatics (a choice) to augment dexterity, while Psymet can adjust strength and dexterity. Bards get a skill in music to increase charisma. Guardians/Wiccans can adjust/affect many things, depending on class. Mages/Druids...actually don't change too much, but with the sole exception of their damage attack, stats aren't too relevant.

So, a Mugwump or Furrikin warrior will not be as powerful. But if you enjoy the RP, or the setup in another way, go for it. You'll find it works. I've fiddled around with many races and unorthodox options, and there are often ways to be effective in what you set out to do. After all, the key is to have fun, isn't it?

Maldoror

Well I've pretty much settled on staying Orclach for now and it may not be too bad a choice than I initially grumbled about. Thanks for all of the advice, a lot of it is really good. The folks in Magnagora seem to be really willing to help me along the way, so I really appreciate that and it makes for a smoother ride. Picked myself up some decent gear for bashing, so we'll see how things go for now.

Karlach

Back when Karlach was actually a tiny newbie Orclach named Morkarion, my original home was in the ur'Guard. First character in my first MUD.

If you want pointers about bashing and such, feel free to ask here or in PMs or in game.

Hiriako

People are usually good for helping out, yes. Make sure you have good weaponry for hunting with!