Just a place for people to post advice as a resource for others:
Almost all fights in Lusternia will happen in group fights. You will rarely find yourself in a 1v1 situation long enough to kill the person on your own, without any interference. Some times, it is more important to survive and hinder your opponent long enough until reinforcements come, if you do find yourself in a 1v1 situation. Other times, it's better to run away and join with your group.
Staying together and keeping your group whole is also one of the most important things. Squad leaders can't use Unity, that's just not feasible in most group combat. It is on you, as an individual, that if you fall behind, to be able to catch up. (Side note: Pig Noses become one of the most important artifacts you can get because of this). A lot of skills people use are aimed at breaking the group up: Scissorflip, Reality, stupid Aeromelds/Pathtwists, Carcer, if this happens to you, you have to get back to the main group (Things scroll really fast, I highlight each exit a different color, so if I get scissorflipped north, I see purple text with a yellow background, I know I went north. In group combat, I don't read what happens, I look at colors, I highlight as many things as I can).
The three most important, and most commonly used skills towards breaking up/holding together groups are Beckon, Rad and Empress.
Beckon: Guardians can beckon enemies in adjacent rooms to enter your room, if you have pits set up, the pits will still fire. The main way to stop beckoning is for two Warriors (or those with beasts) to block the exit you are being beckoned to firmly. This is so important that a lot of Warriors forget they can do this. Don't, you'll live longer. Also, if you do beckon the enemy into your room, don't stop beckoning. Smart people will tumble away after being beckoned, if you keep beckoning, you keep beckoning them into the room when they tumble out.
Rad: Mages/Druids can either fuse rad into their meld, making their melds one of the most annoying places to be and its really great at breaking up groups. Or, more commonly, enemy groups will sit in rooms next to each and get into a Rad/Beckon war. Radders sling rad runes in adjacent rooms in hopes to magically transport them into a random adjacent room. The only way to stop rad is to Pentagram/Circle. This becomes important because the Mages/Druid who are slinging the rads, are never Pentagrammed/Circle'd, because they are in constant combat. It is on you, the non-mage/druid, to be sprinkling salt on the mage/druid after they sling rad to avoid losing them. Very important, very underused.
Empress: Tarotists who can Instant summon to your allies/lusted. One of the most important group combat skills in the game. Make sure you always have your fellow tarotists allied so they can either save you, or instantly summon you to the group if you get lost. Or they can fall back out of the room and work on empressing everyone in the group out of danger. It is stopped by monolith sigils (and Bonds), so you have to watch for when people drop monoliths (hint, highlight the word monolith). *** Important: I have been a Tarotist for the past 14 years throughout IRE games, and the same strategy still works that I used as an Occultist. Set up Fool tarot (masks tarot flings), run in, Fling lust at person, either run out/get empressed out, then empress person you have lusted. If someone flings a masked tarot card at you, just reject them right away, regardless of what it is. If you are not lusted to them, then the reject doesn't take Eq (it'll say, "Why would you reject that person"), if you are lusted, it'll take your Eq but save you. So important. Also, highlight the word Lust, make a huge echo for when someone flings Lust tarot at you, and do not forget to reject. If you are tumbling out of the room and I keep empressing you away, quit tumbling, reject first. Also, when you die, always check your Allies list.
Damaging vs Hindering:
A lot of times people are unsure of what they should be doing in group combat, and unaware of other skills because their over reliance on damage killing right away. While true, damaging someone out in the first 10 seconds of a fight(usually melder/bard) is the best way to go, after that initial surge, you have to switch to other skills.
Bards: In a large group fight, a bard should rarely be targetting one person and damaging them in hopes of killing. Every 8ish seconds, the bard has to blankchord room. The other 8 seconds has to be you managing your song, making sure you aren't fugueing, and taking out the other enemy bard. If there are no enemy bards, you should have Octave up, and Egovice/Manabarbs the Warriors in between blankchording (or PowerSpikes the Serpenters/Truehealers). The auric skills are too often forgotten about in group combat, but still just as effective.
Mages: Keeping your meld alive(and you) is the most important part, every melder knows that, what every melder doesn't know that you can do more besides Point Staff
@dir/Phantomsphere/UnleashStaff. If you are a Mage and holding a mid-sized meld, the enemy will most likely have been in your meld multiple times before getting close to your group. Weave Stalkers/Sightstealers on individual enemies before they ever get near your room. If your group is just conceding ground, you are not just helpless to defend your meld, you can set yourself up for the bigger fight. If you weave a Sightstealer on anyone in your meld, you can give them Claws/Phantoms anywhere in your meld. You can also Evoke Whisper, knocking them off Eq, slowing them down even more in your meld. You can knock someone off eq from a distance!
Druids: Quit putting up treelife. I know it helps you, but it doesn't help the group. Not everyone in your group will be able to climb trees or will want to fight in the trees (Contagion?!?), and sometimes the Treelife saves the enemy from a delayed instant kill. Don't go for your individual kill, help the group out.
Guardians/Wiccan: Why are you going for Manakill/Damagekill/Toad/Judge* when Aeon/Slitthroat/throatlock can be done in 3 seconds? That's death in group combat. Casters/Wiccans have some of the weakest attacks, but are the best afflicters. And in group combat, you can often get Manakills without ever using a mana draining skill. * Judge is just awful. The rare times it works, the person was going to die anyways, most of the time you'll get stopped beforehand. All you Celestines are tarotists, just Aeon instead. Or Lust tarot so the person doesn't get away. Or beckon.
Sorry Warriors/Monks, you guys are usually pretty good at doing what you do. If you have a Warrior/Monk stack, you should all gang up on chest/head on one person. If you have few Warriors/Monk, go for the legs. If you are a Monk and you get to mo5 in group combat, just kill everyone.
I'll try and think up of some more.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Comments
I wouldn't lump Wiccans and guardians together.
1) Wiccans actually do great damage with a higher damage formula than staves. Both are great damage type too. Unless they are hexes, they have subpar hinders. I enourage wiccans to mash their damage buttons.
2) Toad is also fantastic. Know your enemy is the key here, but mana drains are encouraged in the right situations. Especially when there is a Harbinger around.
Also: Treelife is awesome when you are outnumbered.
1. Lots of classes can do damage, but not every class can aeon. Aeon is that important in group combat, and a lot of times you'll find that if you had hindered instead of damaging, the person may not have escaped. That happens more often than not for me (I'm holding someone down via hangedman, but I go to blanknote, and they escape).
2. Out of Absolve/Wrack/Toad, Toad is the only one that doesn't kill. Know your allies here. I've been toaded before and escaped, but if a Celestine absolved me, I would've been dead. If you discern and see someone is at less than 50% mana, call it out on Alliance clan.
3. Not every fight you'll be outnumbered, and while Treelife is awesome for survival and breaking up the group, so is keeping them on the ground, in pits, in contagion, and preventing them from running. Treelife is a double edged sword that sometimes frees them up to run away.
@Ileein:
I'm not sure how Institute/Illuminati beckon, I missed out a lot on the Halli/Gaudi stuff by not being here when most of them were released (and abused), so feel free to take some of my advice with a grain of salt.
EDIT: Total cost to try and convoke someone for institute is 8p, making it possibly the most ridiculous summon method.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Keep mass amounts of power at all times, even when you don't think you'll be in a fight any time soon.
Figure out how to highlight people eating earwort, but do NOT reflex blanknoting on earwort unless you can figure out a timer with highlights so you know when people are reflexively eating, and when they're just spamming it in a panic.
Also, while aeon is a staple ability in group combat (I wouldn't mind seeing it deleted, but that's another topic) there's really no point in having more than 2 aeoners on the primary target, and fairly little point in using aeon as a hinder. Hangedman or cosmic web works better, since web is also a pseudo prone. Instead of saying "always aeon over damage", it'll be wiser to look at your own team and tie down which person will do the aeoning and which person will do the webbing. Extras can feel free to destro spam or mana spam, depending on the situation. For Glom, this is standard procedure because there's only 1 shadow per enemy, so night users have to tie down before hand who's gonna do the stealing and twisting. But it's the same concept - the non twisters should be scourging or webbing or damaging or mana-ing, depending on the situation and team makeup. Having 5 people aeon the same target is pretty pointless.
On topic though, good guide
Step 1: FORGET WYRDENWOOD PERMANENTLY
Step 2: SKILLCHOICE SELECT DRUIDRY
I'm kidding. I think for you, @Belibi, Runes would be best -- since I'm not seeing the option to fuse DW motes to your noose. If you fuse your noose with lots of haegl, you'll be dealing a lot of damage and mana at the same time -- and Glomdoring is all about mana drain. Make sure you're quaffing nightsweats for increased bleeding, and you have your bleeding leaves up. I personally do not use bombs anymore, but only because my field effects are better than having the bomb imo. Make sure you're Coppicing with other droods.
EDIT: Make sure you're using Wyrdenwood Blaze in enemy Hart melds -- I assume it's faster than chopping.
Also, I see something called Barkguard under AB WYRDENWOOD WYRDEN. If I'm reading it right, this means you can barkguard saplings, as if in a BT meld, keeping them (or increasing their resistance) from being chopped. That's basically a permanent BT meld for your allies right there if used at the right time. Unless this is strictly trees in Glomdoring/EthGlom
EDIT DEUS: I see you get a 20 poison damage buff, but no asphyx buff. Unless you can get your hands on a curio for asphyx damage buff, I'd use the simple flail in combat situations rather than noose, but that's up to you.
I'd always recommend noose to flail, even though you won't be doing as much damage... either that or alternate the two attacks, noose, flail, noose, flail, etc. The entangle component of noose is much too good to be ignored. That said, there's also the part that any person that dies to noose will -not- leave a usable corpse for reviving in that the attack decapitates if it kills.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
First, I don't care what your body looks like, you aren't a tank. You sure in the heck aren't tanky, and you aren't a warrior. Your job isn't to sit there on the front line and flail away at people; it's to help your other allies to do their job. Learn to hit and run, Don't be afraid to run from a fight you can't win, and learn your opponent's skills and how they can effect you or protect them.
It goes without saying that you should also know your allies skills. Are they fighting a guardian/Wiccan? Doublesling a stupidity/repugnance rune and keep it up. All the target has to do is have stupidity hit them with a "secrets" or better yet a sleep/dive, along with their entourage hitting them and missing a love sip to clear repug, and you have the upper hand.
Is your ally friend a warrior trying to go for behead? Paralysis rune keeps an enemy from parrying, iirc.
Something to also make sure you do is make a lot of aliases/highlights. If you see an ally get radded or beckoned out, rad or beckon them back. Salting people also works wonders, I always alias that.
Trust me, your enemy will abuse whatever they can to kill you, and you don't owe it to them to use the most complicated killing method you know just for some mishapen sense of "honour". Your job is to kill your enemy, and kill them quick. If they get pissed off, so much the better, because they'll make mistakes when they come after you. Whatever trash they talk is just words.
What kind of a-hole would communefavour you for decapping randoms in Seren?
Oh right...
Regarding groups and aeon: My personal opinion is that mass aeon spam really isn't all that effective unless there's a mechanic involve to get it to stick. i.e. throatlock, slit throat. The most broadly used public system handles aeon pretty well, it was built from the ground up (to my understanding) to handle choke (RIP) and aeon as effeciently as possible. My experience has been getting mass aeon spammed was irritating but not all that deadly. I would agree with Lerad and say that there needs to be limited aeoners.
I think the biggest takeaway from this sort of thread is that the most important thing in a group fight is this: Know your role beforehand, and be flexible. General rules of thumb are great for newcomers who are just confused by the mass text spam rolling across the screen, but don't be afraid to ask your resident top tier combatant or leader about what you should do. Sometimes you're just going to be the web monkey, and that's okay! Web monkeys are invaluable, and we love you for doing it. Sometimes the situation calls for mass mana drain for a toad gank. Just be flexible and open.
I'd also like to point out that you shouldn't get intimidated fighting with the "big PKers." Remember that they need you as much as you need them. They can't do their jobs if you aren't there to do yours, because even the biggest, baddest, scariest PKer can't fight a group of 6 without support. The top PKers generally are the first targets, and you can save them with your hinders. Don't underestimage your contribution. The vine spammer and the mana drainers are just as important as the artied up damage whore.
BTW I saw on uh..one of the other IRE forums (Achaea maybe?) sticky class guides that follow the same basic template and give general advice for each class as well as general RP and lore. I was thinking we could do the same. I'd be willing to cover the SD one if there's any interest from the community to have these for Lusternia.
(There were also people decapped elsewhere, I remember it happening on a semi-regular basis)
Murdering lowbies and non coms does not count!
EDIT: You can also fuse dreamweaving motes to your weapon the same as runes.
Another great point was brought up by (I think Celina):
Know Your Role
When I pointed out for Guardians, why they are going for a kill when aeon/throatlock/slitthroat can be done, it was with the advanced knowledge of people knowing their role and what to do. Usually before the fight begins, you assign roles. You won't always be doing your role, but for the main 'burst' attacks after your group kills someone and switches to a new target, you fall back into your role. I'll list a few roles down here, there'll always be exceptions to the roles, that I'm sure somebody will post about.
Tarotists: If you have Tarot, your role in the group is almost always hinder. Before any fight, you should always put up Princess Tarot (cures afflictions, h/m/e when you beseech princess), Enigma tarot (flings two cards at once, lasts 3 flings), Fool tarot (masks 1 card 3 times), Warrior tarot (does damage per card, lasts 2 flings). World tarot is optionable. That's 15 power (25 if you include World), so make sure to put up before any fight. What you should be focusing is on making sure the enemy is always aeoned and lusted, in case they try to run. Hangedman is good for temporary hinder in case you need to slow them down or have someone catch up. While they are aeoned, you don't need to keep aeoning, you can moon tarot or damage them out. Most likely someone in your group did something to prevent them from sipping.
Glamours: Before any major fight, if you are a Glamourist, sometimes it is important to Maze someone right away, and if Demigod, it's important to Refresh power and maze another. That's a bitch on the power front and leaves you ineffective afterwards. But, before the fight, you can set up Maelstorm, which has a huge impact on group combat (Every 10 seconds, they can get hit by your song, by maelstorm, by the meld, and contagion if Magnagoran, passively). Between BlankChording the room, Mazing, Maelstorm, you won't have as much time to Flare/Colourburst as you'd like, though it can be effective because of your ability to transfix.
Telekinetics: This is all assuming you are not the meld holder, and can be true if Mage/Chem. If you are in an allies meld, and are a Mage, you will want to be with the group keeping the meld terrained (weave terrain chaos), so the enemy melders can't break. Outside of that, TKs are really good at knowing what to do, Throatlock for aeon, trip for the Warriors, Barrier for everyone. One thing some TKs forget to do is they can PsychicFling and PsychicPush the Serpenters/Truehealers, breaking their prismatic barrier.
Dreamweavers: This is also assuming you are not the melder, and can be true if Mage/Chem. Just like TK, if you are in the allies meld and are a mage, you have to be keeping the room terrained so it can't be melded over. Beyond that, Puncture/Flick Memoryloss motes, 8 seconds of blackout is basically death in group combat. If you are ganking (8ishvs1), you can easily punctre/memoryloss and have someone start a delayed instant kill. Otherwise, it's still a pretty effective.
Chems/Woods: I just haven't played around with them enough, though AeroChems know what to do with their StaticField, and Aquachems know how to use their Recklessness and Divinus power attack, but beyond that, the best strategy is probably to coordinate your versions of Unleash Staff with either other Chems/Woods or with a Mage/Druids unleash staff.
Midbies: A lot of midbies don't think they impact a group enough, but how wrong they are! My definition of a midbie is someone who isn't quite tri-trans, and doesn't have a lot of their power attacks yet. With the right enchantments and the right know how, you can still be an impact. One of the things you can all do is Web/Vines, which is the most simple hinder you can do. Similar to web/vines is Shieldstun, while preventing curing, doesn't hinder as long as Web/Vines. But the most important thing you can do without any skill is being on Gust patrol. Find out which one of your allies is being attacked, and gust them to safety. It's simple, it's effective, it saves lives. The person that gets gusted heals up really quick and jumps back into battle, sometimes, the group changes target, other times they go back to hitting the person gusted. More often than not, the enemy group ends up attacking two different people instead of focusing. Such a simple thing that can be done if you just pay attention to one of your allies that are being hit, and it can have a large impact on combat. Other such options include Cleanse, if one of your Allies is Crucifixed/Sapped, point cleanse at them.
Leaders: The most important thing a leader does is help keep the group together. You don't want to be going into battle alone when you think you have 7 following you, but end up going alone. Pits are often one of the biggest culprits to breaking up a group (***IMPORTANT***), If your leader falls into a pit, YOU have to REFOLLOW them in a promptly manner. That is so important to leading a group and often leads to the longest delay. The other longest delay and biggest culprit to breaking up a group is a meld. That is why it is extremely immportant for anyone to be leading a group to also know how melds work, and be able to look at the Map of the area and just figure out where the break points most likely are. The leader has to put their group in a position to succeed, and you won't do that if you run your group into the middle of an unbreakable room.