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Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

I like the idea of plots you can set to a specific commodity, with villages making them more profitable if they're aligned to the city. So if you have a fruit farm and your city/commune is in control of a fruit producing village, your plot is more productive, but even if it's not, you can still work it. Maybe everyone can only have 1 or 2 plots but can change the plots to a different type, but with a gold/something expenditure and time cost? So you can't just parkour around things.

Shulamit

Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

We don't need to keep the fighting part, it's dumb and bad for people who are just getting into the system. Could opt for Aetolia's farming plot mechanics, which I think can't be attacked?

I went into more detail with Achaea's because I'm more familiar with it. The main point I wanted to make was to divorce comm generation from mobs.

Mboagn

Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

Long list around the trading aspects of the economy. Realistically some of this has even been a thing since launch, it's just that over time population shifts have made it an issue.

Active generation that can link to need
As far as I understand it, village generation is an issue because their outputs are more or less consistant modified by org governing styles and political structures as well as comm quests. Which also means they aren't responsive to what an org really needs so generation can be too low, similarly if needs are low they just keep chugging away creating unneeded comms.

I wouldn't be looking at manse generators as anything but a bad example because we know they didn't work. I'd instead be looking at Aetolia's farm system and seeing how well the admin there think that's working (I assume well as they're still looking to expand the system) because it has limitations, choices, etc.
Review trade goods in the context of artifacts/wonderitems/curios/demipowers/etc
- Actual need for trade goods
  Aside from non-decay basically reducing the need for traders down to consumables and newbies who haven't got non-decay yet.
  
  Cooking has consumable buffs... but the two you can sell in shops are replaced by the wondercorn. Given every time it comes up the advice is "you should get wondercorn through your levelling crystals", infused foods seem to only have value to players below level 40, for platters, and 70, for cuisine and once you hit 80 and get the eighth crystal you can upkeep a permanent herofete on yourself without any downside.
  
  Influencing buff has oils, wetfold, tattoos, and beasts but with charismatic aura and quiet mind you're at 6 universal, as you build the mask you start hitting 8 in each.
  
  The runes cap you at 13 without fully investing in the bow curio collections so even if you dropped the superior runes to 3 rather than 5 there's the curios that will give you more than enough.
  
  This is also before even looking at any possible race or class benefits. Trades are only going to make money if players actually need their goods.
- Trade artifacts
  Cooking is kinda bad for this given that to be able to reliably sell cooked goods for a profit you're looking at not only transing cooking as well as a spatula (300cr) and Pieman (3 wondercrystals), but even then the gold profit is only maybe double digits.
  
  You also then have the spoon which in the current context it's kinda pointless cause if I wanted to I could write a trigger which would permanently maintain those buffs from the corn, but also it seems like it just halves your profit when you're actually selling them cause the buffs last twice as long?
  
  Alternatively it seems like artifacts that instead give you more options might be healther because then for the base stuff people can still compete but you can gain access to more stuff.
Set up two sub-categories of trade, Mercantile and Artisanal(?), then rework trades into them.
If you look at the specs we have thirteen trades and it seems clear that it's just... too much. Only three have aethertrades, only five (or seven depending on how you want to count enchantment and alchemy) even have goop crafting.

Splitting them into Mercantile (trades that are meant to make money) and Artisanal (trades that are for designing/player customisation/etc) would let us have something like five mercantile trades which have every single necessity and the like in them, with all the other stuff just off in "artisanal" trades.

There would be some reworking as necessary and none of them should be class locked, but all the buffs, weapons, armour, curatives, etc would all be consolidated down and as necessary reskinned.

I would also heavily suggest that mercantile skills should be excluded from skillflexing and that you really shouldn't be able to get more than two. Artisanal is less of a concern. But a limit of two for mercantile really means you only need between two to four other players to be able to get any mercantile item which I don't think is unreasonable if we also look at the shops stuff mentioned further down.
Look at how we sell goods to other players
- Unsellable goods
  
  The example here would be tattoos really, but enchantments are in a similar boat. To ensure ease of access to goods, basically everything should be sellable via a shop. Needing to find an enchanter to start a specific enchantment is an issue even though maintenance afterwards is trivial. Tattoos are really just a pain to get (pun intended).
  
  But also on the other hand both of those examples also fall into the category of stuff that you only need the trader for once, barring reasons like losing your enchant or needing to change tattoos, so it's also not a service needed regularly enough to warrant someone always being ready to provide it.
  
  I think this should be done in concert with the mercantile idea though because, for example, tattoos is a good candidate to be split. The actual tattoos might just becoming an artisanal thing with no mechanical benefit while the benefits from tattoos can be worked into on of the mercantile skills.
- Shops
  
  Most effective way to sell stuff, there are sooo many of them. But if you don't have one, it's kinda... good luck trying to sell things that could be sold in one cause you're competing with the entire aetherplex for convenience.
  Something like starmourns variation where it seems like everyone can put stuff up for sale could make things more accessible to everyone and you could even implement taxes so that every sale could include a small gold sink.

Saran

Re: Small(er) scale pvp

EDIT:This is in reference to Luxurio, not Xenthos btw. If that wasn't clear

Look, you need to stop jumping on people for putting up their opinions and their point of view.

Nobody ever said 'nuke the rewards for people who actually do the thing.' That was never once suggested by anybody, whether through support emails or on forums.

Nothing is being discussed in the 'back-channels' on the direction of the game. We listen and respond to every concern or complaint that comes in through support but it doesn't affect any major game decisions.

Major game decisions are brought to the community at large, for better or worse, because we believe in transparency and do our best to be transparent with all our decisions. We often ask for input when implementing changes and will continue to do so.

Orael

Re: Small(er) scale pvp

@Xenthos - I was told that. I was explicitly told that. Maybe you didn't say it, but others have.

For the record, any changes made to Grimkeep were made to encourage players to make each run last as long as possible. We want people to consistently and routinely try to get the top run. Everything about the rewards is to encourage that motivation.

Orael

Re: Small(er) scale pvp

Please keep the conversation civil enough without devolving into namecalling or personal attacks.

Making assertions about others' alternative characters, true or not, is against forum rules and furthermore is off topic. Certain posts have been removed to reflect this.

Help this thread be useful, or we may have to close it!

Maylea

Re: Small(er) scale pvp

Sheesh... moving on.

I think the best solution is to adjust existing systems to fit into new designs. Like change timequakes or domoths to have limited amount of people involved that change the rewards. For Domoths, it could be 3 people at sceptre, 5 at orb and 10 at crown. Perhaps for timequakes, the more people in the timequake the slower the anomaly generates or perhaps the slower they capture it?

Timequakes are a great addition, but I think the limited amount of research options plus the silly upkeep of an already limited resource means a lot of archpower goes unused and it isn't worth fighting over sometimes. The idea of a limited win from a timequake where you can still take 2 out of the 8 anomalies and it be meaningful would be nice. But the research and fight isn't worth it.

Silvanus

Re: My new blog: Muddling the Waters

Part of my hope is that this will help demystify some things

demonnic

Re: Small(er) scale pvp

Down with deathballs.

Melech

My new blog: Muddling the Waters

I gave in and listened to the voices and started a blog. demonnic.com has been registered and had wordpress associated with it.

The main purpose of this blog is Mudlet development, primarily scripting and such for Mudlet but there will also be posts about adding to Mudlet I expect.

I will be starting out by making posts and videos for how I set up my development environment for making Mudlet scripts, and following the development of a new project started largely for the purpose of working through it with my readers.

In the end I hope it will be a way for people to learn some new tips and tricks for Mudlet, and to explain how and why I do the things I do when coding for Mudlet.

End shameless self-promotion

demonnic