Sidd pointed out that preoverhaul it was normal for most demigod classes to sit at 5-7k health with good buffs. Now days folks sit at 6-7k with low buffs.
So you sort of have to recognise that you are much tankier than you used to be.
Lowering vitals for some classes would be a return to the distinct class differences you had pre-homogenisation. Which is something that lots of people have been asking for for ages.
I like the concept of myself being made weaker to be honest. In a lot of group fights damage just bounces off the me and the other higher tier folks, unless it's a massive number difference.
I like the idea that I have to be smarter and play better to avoid damage in groups.
With the envoy report buffs to athletics I have to hedge my support for this report a bit more. If we're tweaking warriors up through skill changes, this vitals change is less necessary.
I think this report needs a new problem, or one that outlines what is at issue better. What exactly is the real problem?
When I read everything in this thread and take account of what I've seen in game, I get the impression it is more "vitals runes give too much boost", since I see plenty of people still pop to damage - just not the top-tier artied folks.
Dropping the floor hits the new players and people gauging their interest the most. If we're still giving newbies claymores that hit as hard as artie whips and taking them away via decay, knocking down their vitals seems like a seriously detrimental move to retention.
2
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited August 2017
Health is the king stat simply because everyone has default access to damage, so regardless of group composition, health damage can be a viable strategy all the time. And that's exactly how it plays out fight after fight.
Mana and Ego exist somewhere distantly second to health. Mana being arguably better than ego due to the prevalence of mana kills, but mileage varies depending on how you play and what you're playing against.
Until that changes, I don't believe "we're too homogenized" is a legitimate argument for giving physical classes the best opportunity in pvp by default.
Until death by any vital is equally viable, giving specific archetypes a health advantage is just paying homage to the fantasy tropes of tank/healer/dps and calling it "variety." However, Lusternia does not subscribe to that design in any meaningful way. Warriors can't pull aggro, guardians can't compete at range, etc. So bigger health pools just mean you're better than those without, and then everyone can celebrate not being homogenized I guess.
Unless you want to make warriors suck offensively at the cost of being survivable. Then no PKer would play them, and speaking from past experience, they never actually buy into that. People want it all, always.
If I were an envoy still, I'd blow this report up.
EDIT: For the record, I played long before the overhaul was a thing and warriors having the biggest health pools didn't make the game more interesting. They were tanks and everyone else sucked it up (a couple of exceptions like telekinesis). Sure, it was heterogeneous, but had no argument of balance to back it up.
6
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Being honest, this is the best argument I've seen for just deleting the report. There's been a few good ones made previously by a few others, but this one actually does display this doesn't solve the actual intention.
I've gone ahead and deleted/rejected the report. We have other solutions in mind anyway that will be coming up in coming months that won't be so global a change.
Being honest, this is the best argument I've seen for just deleting the report. There's been a few good ones made previously by a few others, but this one actually does display this doesn't solve the actual intention.
I've gone ahead and deleted/rejected the report. We have other solutions in mind anyway that will be coming up in coming months that won't be so global a change.
I've brought this up before, but healing pressures Health and Ego stats, which are already Guardians' weakest, and the health drops can be pretty borderline lethal sometimes. Hence Vitality, right? But that's a bit useless if every heal/farheal can kill you a la before you hit demigod.
This sounds like a problem with the healing skill to me. Perhaps this should be changed. Perhaps bring that up to your envoys.
...And... now there's a report up to nerf healing from someone that thinks dropping health into instakill/dead-from-a-stiff-breeze levels isn't punishing enough. I'm finding it difficult to have faith in your envoy system...
I've brought this up before, but healing pressures Health and Ego stats, which are already Guardians' weakest, and the health drops can be pretty borderline lethal sometimes. Hence Vitality, right? But that's a bit useless if every heal/farheal can kill you a la before you hit demigod.
This sounds like a problem with the healing skill to me. Perhaps this should be changed. Perhaps bring that up to your envoys.
...And... now there's a report up to nerf healing from someone that thinks dropping health into instakill/dead-from-a-stiff-breeze levels isn't punishing enough. I'm finding it difficult to have faith in your envoy system...
You could always apply to be an envoy and fix all the problems you've found in Lusternia.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
You could always apply to be an envoy and fix all the problems you've found in Lusternia.
I'm not convinced a majority vote system (especially one where the voters are such a narrow demographic...) can work for game balance. More or less a glorified popularity contest... Applying to participate in a broken system won't fix said broken system...
There is a report to weaken one overpowered ability in healing and also a report to buff healings downtime.
Yes, burnout no longer being a "You can't play for 1 hour" will be nice if that happens. As for OP... given how easy it makes a health kill (and that it can't be done from a distance without killing the healer), I disagree. But... it is one of the few abilities with (in the right circumstances) potential to be an effective counter to heavy manadrains and so toad...
Comments
So you sort of have to recognise that you are much tankier than you used to be.
Lowering vitals for some classes would be a return to the distinct class differences you had pre-homogenisation. Which is something that lots of people have been asking for for ages.
W/e. You guys have every prerogative to make the game more boring.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I like the idea that I have to be smarter and play better to avoid damage in groups.
When I read everything in this thread and take account of what I've seen in game, I get the impression it is more "vitals runes give too much boost", since I see plenty of people still pop to damage - just not the top-tier artied folks.
Dropping the floor hits the new players and people gauging their interest the most. If we're still giving newbies claymores that hit as hard as artie whips and taking them away via decay, knocking down their vitals seems like a seriously detrimental move to retention.
Mana and Ego exist somewhere distantly second to health. Mana being arguably better than ego due to the prevalence of mana kills, but mileage varies depending on how you play and what you're playing against.
Until that changes, I don't believe "we're too homogenized" is a legitimate argument for giving physical classes the best opportunity in pvp by default.
Until death by any vital is equally viable, giving specific archetypes a health advantage is just paying homage to the fantasy tropes of tank/healer/dps and calling it "variety." However, Lusternia does not subscribe to that design in any meaningful way. Warriors can't pull aggro, guardians can't compete at range, etc. So bigger health pools just mean you're better than those without, and then everyone can celebrate not being homogenized I guess.
Unless you want to make warriors suck offensively at the cost of being survivable. Then no PKer would play them, and speaking from past experience, they never actually buy into that. People want it all, always.
If I were an envoy still, I'd blow this report up.
EDIT: For the record, I played long before the overhaul was a thing and warriors having the biggest health pools didn't make the game more interesting. They were tanks and everyone else sucked it up (a couple of exceptions like telekinesis). Sure, it was heterogeneous, but had no argument of balance to back it up.
I've gone ahead and deleted/rejected the report. We have other solutions in mind anyway that will be coming up in coming months that won't be so global a change.
You could always apply to be an envoy and fix all the problems you've found in Lusternia.
I'm not convinced a majority vote system (especially one where the voters are such a narrow demographic...) can work for game balance. More or less a glorified popularity contest... Applying to participate in a broken system won't fix said broken system...
Yes, burnout no longer being a "You can't play for 1 hour" will be nice if that happens. As for OP... given how easy it makes a health kill (and that it can't be done from a distance without killing the healer), I disagree. But... it is one of the few abilities with (in the right circumstances) potential to be an effective counter to heavy manadrains and so toad...