I don't know, I think the opposite. At a cost-per-use I don't really see myself using it ever but if it was a one-off payment then I'd consider buying one.
Did nobody else see "toadstool" and wonder what game the admin have been playing besides Lusternia?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Was reading a lot of this to catch up on opinions and had a few thoughts on the blood scarf.
1) Maybe it could become a whip instead of wear and cause bleeding to target? This would open it up to all classes and definitely serve as a way to keep it being purchased.
2) If still a wear, could increase the amount of bleeding you do by a %, maybe 5-10% to keep it low from my own suggestion, but I'm no PKer so you guys do the balance!
3) If still a wear, it can reduce the amount of bleeding you take. Opposite of prior suggestion.
Vampiric ideas:
1) Rather than a whip, can be worn and heals you for half the bleeding you clot (chervil too)
2) Change the whip to be upfront damage burst and any bleeding target does heals attacker. Could be used by one person and gives the defender a debuff that heals anybody who causes them to bleed.
3) Whip damage can be kept/lowered (no expertise) and the heal is 100% of damage dealt rather than just the half.
Here is what we are going with for the time being then, thank you to everyone for your input.
Blood Red
Defence, lasts 60 minutes. Bleeding/bruising you cause is increased by 10%.
Falcon
Defence, lasts 60 minutes. Summon a falcon, occationally hits other mobs you are bashing. Attacks every 10 seconds, does approx 20% a normal hit - counts as normal player attack for, e.g. criticals.
Headless
Defence, lasts 60 minutes. Increases death respawn timers (lich, conglut, phoenix etc) for players killed by wearer by 10 seconds.
Rainbow
Defence, lasts until logout (through death). Tells send by players wearing this scarf will be a rainbow colour.
Fire
Attack, instant, limit one per IG month. WHIP SCARF <target>: base damage 60% target's current health, 8s balance. Once per IG month.
Cannibal
Cure, instant, limit once per IG day. Eat the decapitated head or shrunken head of a player for a health/mana regain. (restores 75% h/m/e)
Vampiric
Defence, lasts 60 minutes. Restores health as you clot bleeding/bruising (3:1 bleed:health).
Heavy
Attack, instant, limit once per IG month. WHIP SCARF <target>: cause the person to have 1s delayed movement for 60 seconds. 5s balance.
Shifting
Defence, lasts 60 minutes. Lowers one of health/mana/ego by 1/6 point, raises another random one by 2/6. Changes approx every 15 minutes.
Armoured
Defence, lasts 10 IG days. Your armour has +5% resistance.
Either my ideas got taken and I'm super stoked, or I missed these suggestions elsewhere and I chimed in. Either way, I like these versions better than originals.
60% of current health is what it is and while yes it seems harsh - it factors in resistances as well. You're Halli right? Don't you already have stupid high fire resist to fight Gaudi?
Also as a side note, that one person Fire whipping is off balance for 8 seconds. I'm no PKer as I mentioned before, but even I know all instakills don't take 8 seconds of windup to murder someone for doing it. The fire whip won't see 1v1 usage for that exactly reason, and in group fights you can be damage killed anyway.
I'm not so worried about it being used against me. I have the vitality arti, I can have 13/13 resists. I'm just saying, it's obviously meta breaking.
If we want to replace people using their guild skills and fighting just with arties, and simplifying group combat to coordinating one big damage burst to instantly wipe someone off the map, that's one direction to go.
Alternately, just leave the fire scarf off the list, and put the rest in.
Edit: these are the sorts of things that make more problems than they solve.
@iosai Can the fire scarf PLEASE be barred from the War seal event if it does get put in, or the scarf made so that it can only be used once per RL day even if used within an arena setting? Otherwise as mentioned by more than one person, it is going to imbalance a LOT of fights and become pretty much required.
Example setting, based off no buffs/resistances influencing totals.
Target has 7300 HP Attacker 1 hinders so that target can not get away (perhaps using aeon or similar) Attacker 2 uses fire scarf for 60% of current HP. Target is now at 2,920 HP Attacker 3 uses fire scarf as well (this is based off optimal timing with the target not having time to use scroll, healing or sparkleberry) Target now has 1,168 HP. Even taking scroll, healing and sparkleberry into account, said target would be a VERY easy kill at this point. Attacker 1 has balance back by this point and finishes target off.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
@iosai Can the fire scarf PLEASE be barred from the War seal event if it does get put in, or the scarf made so that it can only be used once per RL day even if used within an arena setting? Otherwise as mentioned by more than one person, it is going to imbalance a LOT of fights and become pretty much required.
Example setting, based off no buffs/resistances influencing totals.
Target has 7300 HP Attacker 1 hinders so that target can not get away (perhaps using aeon or similar) Attacker 2 uses fire scarf for 60% of current HP. Target is now at 2,920 HP Attacker 3 uses fire scarf as well (this is based off optimal timing with the target not having time to use scroll, healing or sparkleberry) Target now has 1,168 HP. Even taking scroll, healing and sparkleberry into account, said target would be a VERY easy kill at this point. Attacker 1 has balance back by this point and finishes target off.
The fire scarf is once per IG month, regardless of where it's used.
Using that second fire scarf is just wasteful for what it's doing. A more reasonable scenario that would happen is that everyone acts in tandem ie: They say something over a clan and trigger off it. I could see fire scarf, then two big damage moves rather than a hinder and double scarves.
But revisiting, the fire scarf will definitely affect the war seal events...and pretty much only that and small scale raids or domoth fights. It loses its 'necessity' as more people are on your team. So I do agree that it should either be barred from use or just not implemented until that seal happens, whichever is decided upon.
Anyone using a fire scarf willl be at 13/13 fire buff so it's kind of moot that it is affected by buffs/resistances. If anything, it just makes it stronger because the target might not have 13/13 resist.
Really not liking adding more bleed. It's just adding another outlier that makes it even harder to balance bleed classes.
Using that second fire scarf is just wasteful for what it's doing. A more reasonable scenario that would happen is that everyone acts in tandem ie: They say something over a clan and trigger off it. I could see fire scarf, then two big damage moves rather than a hinder and double scarves.
But revisiting, the fire scarf will definitely affect the war seal events...and pretty much only that and small scale raids or domoth fights. It loses its 'necessity' as more people are on your team. So I do agree that it should either be barred from use or just not implemented until that seal happens, whichever is decided upon.
If it will be once per RL day even if used in arena, it is more reasonable, given that people will have to pick and choose VERY carefully, most people will probably end up saving it on the off chance they may get into the higher tier matches, given that they may end up having it used against THEM otherwise.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
Anyone using a fire scarf willl be at 13/13 fire buff so it's kind of moot that it is affected by buffs/resistances. If anything, it just makes it stronger because the target might not have 13/13 resist.
I was thinking this too when I was trying to ponder up ways to make it more fair. While I couldn't think of anything that would outright do the trick, the resistances and the very long balance time on it seems fine enough, after all you become a huge sitting duck after using it. So even in these war game events you sort of just trade 1 for 1 and it becomes an instant 2v2 of sorts.
@Sakaki I thought about this too, and there's a way worse situation. Lets use the earlier mentioned example of a fire scarf and two staff unleashes. So we'll say this is a Gaudi team of 3 Pyromancers.
1st Match - Pyro A fire whip, Pyro B and C unleash 2nd Match- Pyro B fire whip, Pyro A and C unleash 3rd Match- Pyro C fire whip, Pyro A and B unleash
So while the cheese would get them through three matches and potentially win those matches ... Pyros have always been good at what they do even without the help of the new scarves.
Since when has 3 wins ever been enough for War Seal?
I think people are greatly overestimating the effect of this since A: It was changed from max to current and B: It has a very restrictive number of uses.
The most this will ever do is score a critical kill during a hotly contested domoth, or maybe a staff bearer kill at final ascension (assuming we even get a fight out of it)
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I'm with you @Karlach and was pointing out a worst case scenario when it came to the seal event. Pretty sure its round-robin with the victors being the ones with overall best performance record?
The usage of the fire scarf in the ascension events is likely over-rated. Sakaki's example above are unlikely to be of practical use, or effective. 3 people in a highly prepared and scheduled event isn't quite enough to take advantage of a 60% current health attack. (Edit: I accidentally thought Dhani was giving an example about scarf use in war seal challenge. But anyway, my point stands. War seal challenge is probably not the best place to use it. As a second note, Dhani, unleashing requires you to hold the meld. That means only one person can ever unleash. Two unleashes in short order is not possible.)
The fire scarf will likely be used in domoths or group standoffs, to charge into, and kill, say, a melder to gain a sudden, huge advantage in a team fight. It still has a low chance of success, but unless every big team fight starts preparing the counters very consistently (more emphasis on on-entry defenses that disrupt charge-cheese tactics, like pits, target standing one room away, shielding melders, or even just spamming gust waiting for the charge etc) it's possible that it can happen in the occasional fight. Once expended, it's then unlikely to see success again in the same session - though, of course, if there are enough participants in such team fights, then anything goes.
The other more likely scenario will be when everyone is in a group fight and hitting, and one of the team just pops off the fire scarf on whoever everyone is targeting. Boom, he's dead in the next few attacks because of the large burst. The value of such a use is questionable, of course, because if it will work, then likely it'll work even with just a normal bashing attack. And in such scenarios it's a very possible chance you'll actually be doing less damage with the fire scarf than your normal bashing attack if you happen to pop it late, after the target already ate a couple of damage attacks. It's something that'll see "results" only insofar as your team is already on the upperhand and winning. Situations where fights are so close where the losing team can take advantage of it to swing the outcome is much less likely.
In short, the most viable use of the fire scarf is to break into a fortress set up with a charge-cheese tactic.
That said, just because it is situational, doesn't immediately mean it's definitely balanced or fun. It's not a tactic I'd be very pleased to have used against me - I'd hardly be impressed, and probably won't take it like a good sport, to be honest, because it's not really a good sport. I mean, a charge into a 2 second burst-kills of an enemy melder, resulting in a sudden advantageous swing of momentum is something that happens quite often. And while we also get sore and salty from those situations, it's a different kind of frustration when you know it's an artifact that the person is using on you. Even the frustration of getting wiped by, say, Fillin's, or more recently, Sidd's or Falmiis' unleashes into damagespam deaths is more palatable, because there's more dimension to it: there usually was a preceeding battle for meld control that was lost, or the investment into prep and a good meld set up that led to meld advantage etc, which, while frustrating, you can at least respect as part of strategy and skill. An artifact scarf pop just feels like less effort, more cheap cheese.
As an aside: I'm pretty sure the fastest no-prep - nothing like setting spheres or rubbing death tarot - timerkill, deathsong, clocks in closer 9s (not 8) and is stopped by earwort and not movement or hindering. Judge is 12s, I think.
Anyone who doesn't think this can be abused in the war seal isn't thinking creatively enough. One easy example is for a chemwood to set off their bomb. Firewhip + chembomb will kill or bring plenty of people to under 15%, and that still leaves 2 people out of the group to do whatever is necessary to ensure that.
Also, it's not hard to give sensitivity -> firewhip for example.
It's going to be broken, and people are going to cry when they get insta-popped.
Just because you can't use it in every wargame doesn't mean it's going to be fair when a team gets wiped out without any counter-play.
Overestimating fire scarves. they're not gonna swing war seal fights if your team is any good. trust me, we've only won that event for like 4 years now.
The simplest reason why is because 2 people simply don't do enough damage in the window of gibbing that the scarf grants. even less so if one of those people is dedicated to further hindering . in order to abuse the scarf, 2 people will need to focus mostly on dps and that just isn't doable in war. it's not as good as you make it look.
I mean, if we want to disable it for the ascension events, I won't have any objections. I don't think it's going to give a lot of mileage, but if there're concerns that it might, just bar it during those events. Outside of the ascension events, it'll just be as situational as it was designed to be - not in a very fun way, but that's just my opinion. I guess there would be people who could get a kick out of it.
Comments
1) Maybe it could become a whip instead of wear and cause bleeding to target? This would open it up to all classes and definitely serve as a way to keep it being purchased.
2) If still a wear, could increase the amount of bleeding you do by a %, maybe 5-10% to keep it low from my own suggestion, but I'm no PKer so you guys do the balance!
3) If still a wear, it can reduce the amount of bleeding you take. Opposite of prior suggestion.
Vampiric ideas:
1) Rather than a whip, can be worn and heals you for half the bleeding you clot (chervil too)
2) Change the whip to be upfront damage burst and any bleeding target does heals attacker. Could be used by one person and gives the defender a debuff that heals anybody who causes them to bleed.
3) Whip damage can be kept/lowered (no expertise) and the heal is 100% of damage dealt rather than just the half.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
War seal this year/all future years is going to be retarded. Fire whip+ 2 staffs is going to pop everyone.
Enjoy!
If we want to replace people using their guild skills and fighting just with arties, and simplifying group combat to coordinating one big damage burst to instantly wipe someone off the map, that's one direction to go.
Alternately, just leave the fire scarf off the list, and put the rest in.
Edit: these are the sorts of things that make more problems than they solve.
Example setting, based off no buffs/resistances influencing totals.
Target has 7300 HP
Attacker 1 hinders so that target can not get away (perhaps using aeon or similar)
Attacker 2 uses fire scarf for 60% of current HP.
Target is now at 2,920 HP
Attacker 3 uses fire scarf as well (this is based off optimal timing with the target not having time to use scroll, healing or sparkleberry)
Target now has 1,168 HP.
Even taking scroll, healing and sparkleberry into account, said target would be a VERY easy kill at this point.
Attacker 1 has balance back by this point and finishes target off.
But revisiting, the fire scarf will definitely affect the war seal events...and pretty much only that and small scale raids or domoth fights. It loses its 'necessity' as more people are on your team. So I do agree that it should either be barred from use or just not implemented until that seal happens, whichever is decided upon.
Really not liking adding more bleed. It's just adding another outlier that makes it even harder to balance bleed classes.
@Sakaki I thought about this too, and there's a way worse situation. Lets use the earlier mentioned example of a fire scarf and two staff unleashes. So we'll say this is a Gaudi team of 3 Pyromancers.
1st Match - Pyro A fire whip, Pyro B and C unleash
2nd Match- Pyro B fire whip, Pyro A and C unleash
3rd Match- Pyro C fire whip, Pyro A and B unleash
So while the cheese would get them through three matches and potentially win those matches ... Pyros have always been good at what they do even without the help of the new scarves.
I think people are greatly overestimating the effect of this since A: It was changed from max to current and B: It has a very restrictive number of uses.
The most this will ever do is score a critical kill during a hotly contested domoth, or maybe a staff bearer kill at final ascension (assuming we even get a fight out of it)
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
The fire scarf will likely be used in domoths or group standoffs, to charge into, and kill, say, a melder to gain a sudden, huge advantage in a team fight. It still has a low chance of success, but unless every big team fight starts preparing the counters very consistently (more emphasis on on-entry defenses that disrupt charge-cheese tactics, like pits, target standing one room away, shielding melders, or even just spamming gust waiting for the charge etc) it's possible that it can happen in the occasional fight. Once expended, it's then unlikely to see success again in the same session - though, of course, if there are enough participants in such team fights, then anything goes.
The other more likely scenario will be when everyone is in a group fight and hitting, and one of the team just pops off the fire scarf on whoever everyone is targeting. Boom, he's dead in the next few attacks because of the large burst. The value of such a use is questionable, of course, because if it will work, then likely it'll work even with just a normal bashing attack. And in such scenarios it's a very possible chance you'll actually be doing less damage with the fire scarf than your normal bashing attack if you happen to pop it late, after the target already ate a couple of damage attacks. It's something that'll see "results" only insofar as your team is already on the upperhand and winning. Situations where fights are so close where the losing team can take advantage of it to swing the outcome is much less likely.
In short, the most viable use of the fire scarf is to break into a fortress set up with a charge-cheese tactic.
That said, just because it is situational, doesn't immediately mean it's definitely balanced or fun. It's not a tactic I'd be very pleased to have used against me - I'd hardly be impressed, and probably won't take it like a good sport, to be honest, because it's not really a good sport. I mean, a charge into a 2 second burst-kills of an enemy melder, resulting in a sudden advantageous swing of momentum is something that happens quite often. And while we also get sore and salty from those situations, it's a different kind of frustration when you know it's an artifact that the person is using on you. Even the frustration of getting wiped by, say, Fillin's, or more recently, Sidd's or Falmiis' unleashes into damagespam deaths is more palatable, because there's more dimension to it: there usually was a preceeding battle for meld control that was lost, or the investment into prep and a good meld set up that led to meld advantage etc, which, while frustrating, you can at least respect as part of strategy and skill. An artifact scarf pop just feels like less effort, more cheap cheese.
But well, w/e.
Also, it's not hard to give sensitivity -> firewhip for example.
It's going to be broken, and people are going to cry when they get insta-popped.
Just because you can't use it in every wargame doesn't mean it's going to be fair when a team gets wiped out without any counter-play.
The simplest reason why is because 2 people simply don't do enough damage in the window of gibbing that the scarf grants. even less so if one of those people is dedicated to further hindering . in order to abuse the scarf, 2 people will need to focus mostly on dps and that just isn't doable in war. it's not as good as you make it look.
Basically agree with lerads logic.