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Technology advancement in Lusternia

SakrSakr
in Common Grounds
341 years as of now have passed in Lusternia, so my question is about how technology itself has changed over the years.

In understanding that, I think more advanced designs can be made.

For example, there is the Serenwilde elevator, which got upgraded to the Asylum elevator that talks to you when going up or down.

Or with the introduction of Hallifax, that was an introduction to different forms of technology under the name of aeonics.

In Magnagora, the street lamps are powered by high magic.

The introduction of aetherships, new artifacts like furnaces, dingbat artifacts like the telescope, where is technology heading? And what limits do we have?
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Comments

  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    edited December 2012
    Didn't Hallifax already have most of it's technology before it was removed from time? I'd argue that the difference between the Seren elevator and the Hallifax and Asylum ones is more due to the fact that Serenwilde doesn't use advanced technology even when it exists.

    In fact, Xyl had a lot of advanced technology back during the Elder Wars, compare Hallifax to Xion, for example. The technology existed, we just didn't have access to it.

    I'm not sure of the exact lore surrounding gnomes and aetherspace, but I'm sure they're supposed have had aetherships for a long time. Look at stuff like the crashed ship on Mucklemarsh. I think it's supposed to indicate how the Newton war between the gnomes and finks started?

  • SakrSakr
    Well how about turning the way we look at technological advancement. Lets say that there is an infinite amount of technological advancement behind closed doors, that of which we are discovering as times go by. The question is still in essence the same though:

    Where is technology going? Or, what are we going to rediscover next?
    image
  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    I see two main kinds of advanced technology in Lusternia - the crystalline computer-like tech of Hallifax and the far more steampunk kind from Magnagora. I'm very interested to see where the Geomancers are going, the glimpses of the future seem to show...I want to call the geomancer a cyborg, but I think his techno-parts are more mechanical and magic-infused than 'cyber'.

  • DraylorDraylor
    Cyborg trees.
  • MorshothMorshoth
    edited December 2012

    Well... perhaps one day it won't be Lusternia, the Age of Ascension, but Lusternia, the Age of Industrialization!

    And then, we'll all forget our magic, the non-human races will die off due to a dependency on it, and then humans will prevail and make the Earth as it is today... dun dun dun!

  • MaellioMaellio
    On a whole, Technology hasn't advanced terribly much even with the inclusion of Hallifax which for all its wonders still remains mostly archeotech and unreproducible sans a couple of designs and whatever [reasonably thorough] research gets published. [Also mechanically the Harmonics Crystalweapons and the Hallifax Gardens could be considered new tech].

    Though, as noted, while technology mechanically hasn't marched on research and scientific knowledge has and continues to on par [or sometimes surpassing] what we've got IRL.

    It also should be noted that technology flavour can exist without practical advancement, such as those of us with manses describing strange arcane technology and holographic laboratories. Just colourful backdrops, but there's nothing to say they can't exist giving the setting.

    .oO---~---Oo.

    "Perfect. Please move quickly to the next post, as the effects of prolonged exposure to the signature are not part of this test."

    NARF!

  • VurisVuris
    Honestly I thought Hallifax already had holographic labs inside the Institute. Guess I was wrong. But no, the tech takes different route depending on what the player join together to lead it. Though what tech does glom/celest use?
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Uh. Glom uses bloody knives, sharpened sticks, and angry fiends made of thorns. Very high-tech.
    image
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Honestly I thought Hallifax already had holographic labs inside the Institute. Guess I was wrong. But no, the tech takes different route depending on what the player join together to lead it. Though what tech does glom/celest use?
    Celest doesn't need technology, we have fervor!
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • EventruEventru
    Celest achieves the same results using magic and faith. Who needs holograms when they have a water elemental that changes shape into the person its mimicking? Who needs an elevator when you have a waterfall you can swim up? Who needs a flying machine when you can grow angelic wings? Who needs cannons when you can instead unleash great blasts of celestial energy by the power of prayer?
  • GorloisGorlois
    I once asked Estarra (Search for Ask Estarra Volume 2) whether we'd one day go to the moon and go into space but he didn't give me a clear answer about it. I guess you could argue that the moon bubble -is- technically on the moon and aetherspace is space, but... yeah does space exist in lusternia or is it literally just one world and nothingness else in the entire universe but the void?

    I think Magnagora by now should habve invented the/a steam train by now. There is no reason why they can't, because we already use the same mechanics and abilities a train is required to have (Even steam power, of a sorts). Hallifax would design a magnet train.
    A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Aren't the lamps in Magnagora powered by the sewer gas mains, and just lit with the highmagic?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • AlacardaelAlacardael
    But why would Magnagora need to use steam, when they can harness the power of Nil and Earth to move themselves? The same goes for Hallifax.
    If it's broken, break it some more.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Eventru said:
    Celest achieves the same results using magic and faith. Who needs holograms when they have a water elemental that changes shape into the person its mimicking? Who needs an elevator when you have a waterfall you can swim up? Who needs a flying machine when you can grow angelic wings? Who needs cannons when you can instead unleash great blasts of celestial energy by the power of prayer?
    Who needs lamps when you have Eventru?

    /flees
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Alacardael said:
    But why would Magnagora need to use steam, when they can harness the power of Nil and Earth to move themselves? The same goes for Hallifax.
    Control. Steam doesn't have the capacity to think or disobey. 
  • GorloisGorlois
    I don't get what you mean with that? The Taint doesn't have a mind of it's own. Well, you can think that but in reality via the game the Taint is just there to be harnessed like wind power.

    Why would Magnagora need to use steam? Because... that's how steam trains work, and since the admin have a firm, you know, rule about electricity being a no-go we can't do electric trains, so we have to do steam trains. Magnagora could be embodied as... a steam locomotive.
    A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
  • UrfionUrfion
    edited March 2013
    Gorlois said:
    The Taint doesn't have a mind of it's own.
    It's pretty clear to me that the Taint is a little bit alive, and a little bit tricky. Magnagora may be the city of Taint, and they may harness it most of the time, but even if they refuse to admit it, their control sometimes slips and the Taint sometimes creates things that are as dangerous to Magnagora as they are to their enemies. Basically, RP-wise, the Taint is a powerful resources, but it is eventually going to present a bill in one form or another, and that bill is very likely to be greater than the wood/coal burnt to keep steam engines running.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited March 2013
    The taint may not be 'alive' (it's debatable), but it's definitely NOT a neutral tool. It's twisty and tends to change the user, in ways that are seen at worst as unnatural and downright evil, and at best as possibly undesirable. It's a dangerous resource that is powerful, but carries a powerful downside.

    More 'mundane' power sources and methods are less powerful, but are much more neutral. Steam is steam is steam. Using it doesn't carry the inherent chance of warping your soul. A sword can be used to do bad things, but it doesn't urge you to do those things!
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    In short, Magnagora can do better than steam!
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • GorloisGorlois
    Can we stop looking at this from within the game? OOCly it's pretty clear to me that the Taint is lifeless and the effects it has on a person is dependant on how much the person is willing to change, not to mention how Magnagora is full of the least evil people I've ever met. ICly of course Magnagora thinks the Taint is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    Looking at a steam engine diagram, I do not think Taint would actually work in moving the train unless it was smog, which is... well I think it's different. Interestingly, the key components for a steam engine are fire and water, not earth (Except maybe the coal part).


    Of course, you could use tainted coal and so on. See how open a train is to creativity while still keeping the Magnagoran way?
    A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
  • LeradLerad
    Gorlois said:
    Can we stop looking at this from within the game? OOCly it's pretty clear to me that the Taint is lifeless and the effects it has on a person is dependant on how much the person is willing to change, not to mention how Magnagora is full of the least evil people I've ever met. ICly of course Magnagora thinks the Taint is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    ... What? The taint is an IC concept. There is no looking at it from any perspective other than from within the game. There is no such thing as taint IRL. It is clear to you from YOUR perspective of your IC sources, whatever they may be, that the taint is lifeless. That's fine, but that doesn't make it "ooc" fact. Enyalida and whoever else is entirely free to disagree and quote sources from in the game (because that's where the evidence actually is, since the taint only exists in there, you know) and debate, if they can come up with an argument for it.

  • UrfionUrfion
    edited March 2013
    Gorlois said:
    Can we stop looking at this from within the game? OOCly it's pretty clear to me that the Taint is lifeless and the effects it has on a person is dependant on how much the person is willing to change, not to mention how Magnagora is full of the least evil people I've ever met. ICly of course Magnagora thinks the Taint is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    So we shouldn't discuss IC/RP implications of technology in a thread discussing IC/RP implications of technology? That's weird. OOC the Taint doesn't exist, end of story. Perhaps you meant that, mechanically, the Taint isn't alive, though by the same logic neither are most trees.

    Could Magnagora use the Taint to power their technology? Possibly, though it's debatable exactly how one extracts power from the Taint. Would it be dangerous to do so? Probably, considering other applications of extracting power from the Taint, such as the asylum elixir, have a definite backlash. Even if the Taint isn't at all alive, it is still clearly more dangerous and difficult to control than simple steam, and using it unnecessarily is foolish.
  • GorloisGorlois
    I think I meant an un-objective view of it not marred by the perceptions of our characters.

    It seems to be a moot point as all coal is tainted technically because Earth is tainted and coal is a type of rock. So it would be tainted steam. I'm ok with this.
    A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
  • UrfionUrfion
    edited March 2013
    Gorlois said:
    It seems to be a moot point as all coal is tainted technically because Earth is tainted and coal is a type of rock. So it would be tainted steam. I'm ok with this.
    That's untrue as well. The Tainting of Earth did not simultaneously Taint every bit of mineral matter in existence, it Tainted the essence of the extraplanar Elemental Plane of Earth, more or less the platonic ideal of Earth. Rock spirit (the awakened incarnation of all stone everywhere) is still, to the extent of my knowledge, unTainted. Seeing how the Maeve reacted to having some of the things she represents become Wyrden, it's likely Rock would either be Tainted or insane if his entire domain was Tainted by association with Earth. It's more appropriate to say that the Tainting of Earth makes earthen materials more vulnerable to the Taint, rather than Tainted outright.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited March 2013
    That's not a perception unique to non-Magnagorans. I'm pretty damn sure that Magnagora knows that the Taint warps and changes things, and generally has its own 'agenda'... they just don't care, most of the time. It's clear from an OOC (and IC) perspective that the Taint was originally very much like the One Ring (a la Tolkein). A powerful tool for anyone who decides to wield it, but ultimately one that serves a different master and warps the user to that master's design. The Taint was cut off from Kethuru (IIRC) and has morphed into something a bit different than what it originally was (much like the Wyrd changed into something different from the Taint), but it still clearly warps people, that's its entire thing. 


    EDIT: And no one was saying that a steam train would be un-magnagoran if it didn't somehow involve Taint. In fact, I was making the opposite argument. If Magnagorans wanted a non-magical (a physical) transportation method, a non-taint train would be a fabulous way of doing it: It only does exactly what you tell it to do, it's not likely to warp into some kind of evil snake that goes on a rampage eating things, and isn't likely to get the idea that its passengers would benefit from some nice torture on their trip. That seems like a pretty Magnagoran ideal, use the Taint when it serves you, but when it wouldn't... totally abandon it without a backward glance. 
  • EventruEventru
    Urfion said:
    Gorlois said:
    Can we stop looking at this from within the game? OOCly it's pretty clear to me that the Taint is lifeless and the effects it has on a person is dependant on how much the person is willing to change, not to mention how Magnagora is full of the least evil people I've ever met. ICly of course Magnagora thinks the Taint is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    So we shouldn't discuss IC/RP implications of technology in a thread discussing IC/RP implications of technology? That's weird. OOC the Taint doesn't exist, end of story. Perhaps you meant that, mechanically, the Taint isn't alive, though by the same logic neither are most trees.

    Could Magnagora use the Taint to power their technology? Possibly, though it's debatable exactly how one extracts power from the Taint. Would it be dangerous to do so? Probably, considering other applications of extracting power from the Taint, such as the asylum elixir, have a definite backlash. Even if the Taint isn't at all alive, it is still clearly more dangerous and difficult to control than simple steam, and using it unnecessarily is foolish.
    I think a good place to examine the potential impact of using 'soulless energy' to power things is the Presidio. As I recall, they extract some interesting material for their use with curious effects.

    I think you gave a good analysis, Urfion, on the Earth vs earth vs earth spirits. Not to say it is correct or not, but it is a good approach to looking at things (and I love the engagement of 'platonic ideals' when discussing these kinds of things!). I'm always (AAAALWAYS) encouraging people to write things down and publish them via the in-game library system - expanding on the idea and applying it to Earth would be a fine scholarly piece (you could extrapolate it in other pieces on the other elemental planes if you wanted to, and looking at how the Elemental Lords are and what they represent, why they represent what they do, etc).

    I don't have an answer to the question regarding Rock, but another spirit that is close to the Earth plane would probably be Groundhog - and there's a fair bit recently released about him. So that might be someplace to look for context clues to support or dismiss a theory regarding the relation of the Earth Plane and those spirits who may have some connection or proximity to it.

    And, towards Enya, Magnagora has always not only known but embraced the idea of the Taint warping and changing. Beyond even 'not caring', they always viewed it as a positive - that's why they call themselves the Engine of Change. (Unless there's been some  drastic change to the nature of Mag, which I admit is wholly possible, not my greatest area of expertise). I think it's been said that when it lost its connection to Kethuru it lost a lot of its 'bite', but the reality is that anything corrupted by the Soulless is itself capable of corruption - and Magnagorans and other tainted used (and use) it precisely to those ends. Again, there's something in the Presidio that I was aware of, but didn't really think deeply on, that I think goes to the question of 'soulless detritus being used as energy' and that kind of thing. Hint: It's sticky, black, rare, and drilled for. And probably guarded by something ugly and mean. And much beloved by the Presidians.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Right, yeah! And if the Taint changes you in a way that makes you somehow worse, it's not the Taint's fault, it's yours. You're pathetic/weak/lazy/a loser or whatever. The changes themselves are inherently for the better, it's your fault they went awry somehow. 
  • AkyaevinAkyaevin
    There's a quest in the Southern Mountains about trying to contact Old Man Rock. As I recall (it's been real-life years!), when the Taint hit Earth (or perhaps just 'hit' in general, but pretty sure it was pre-Glomdoring) he ran off and hasn't been properly contactable since. So he's presumably not tainted, but whether he would have been tainted if he'd stuck around with Kethuru-boosted Taint on Earth isn't clear. Still, he doesn't respond to the ritual. Someone might want to look up the event post to be certain, though: the exact timing of when Rock vanished, if it's given, would be very important.

    Also, the above quest is why rockeaters sometimes drop glowing stones. I'm sure a lot of you always wondered.
  • GorloisGorlois
    Akyaevin said:
    Also, the above quest is why rockeaters sometimes drop glowing stones. I'm sure a lot of you always wondered.
    I thought those were for the waystation quest. How do you start the Old Man rock quest?
    A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
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