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Re: 1001 things to do in Lusternia before you rage quit

215: Attend a raid attempt on Prime Hallifax and promptly get lost for half an hour before finally giving up and ascending out in frustration.

216: Being so drunk that you raid the wrong organization. Twice. >.>

Alarin

Re: QUOTES 8: THE QUOTING

2021/01/22 17:04:55 Gurashi has recognised Alarin for: For being the guy to eat the snowball at the snowball fight - that was silly as hell. Perfect.

Glad it made someone laugh.

Also... IC, Alarin pretty much eats anything he knows is edible. Lol.

Alarin

Re: Lack of Raves VI: Rave Today, Tweet Tomorrow

I haven't been around much, but thanks to @Romaan and @Parhelion for hosting the first Terentian Tourney. Special thanks @Emlyn, @Mikkel, and @Olyphar for participating. And also, good job @Lawrence for adding a little something extra that I hope we can continue doing.

Terentia

Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

Orael said:

Just to hopefully clear the air here - part of the reason for this thread is we can determine what the players in general want, so we can aim our goals appropriately.

There has been a lot of requests here to make things more active/engaging but then on the flip side, people want to have the option to not engage in the economy at all (mostly by having non-decay, self-sufficiency etc). Those seem pretty polar opposite goals.

Here are a few more questions that could use some answers in general.

1) Is the economy actually a problem for everyone or just a certain subset of players (like newbies etc)?
2) Should trading and economy be pushed as a viable gameplay route (ie, Merchant players that can make money as their IC identity and role)
- Is this currently an option?
3) Is there a route to allows players to both engage or not-engage as they see fit (ie Opt-in?).
- Is this a worthwhile path?
4) Would a better option just be just to nuke the economy and not even worry about it and only fix the commodity issues and call it a day?
- This option would be along the lines of just making basic supplies available in a shop. People can choose to have shops, but they'll have to understand that literally nobody has to or will engage with them outside others that choose to. The only worry about a glut of things would be to preserve db space rather than any economical issues?

Initial reactions:

1) Newbies really struggle to find resources, especially things like people willing to tattoo. If you don't play for a while and come back to half your stuff decaying, that's painful. New player or old, there are so many things to acquire you spend a good deal of time acquiring consumables.
2) It sucks to say this, but in my view, no. I really don't see how 15 trades will be fairly balanced, not even considering the low/highmagic/class restrictions.
3) Not sure.
4) See #2, nuke it and focus on commodities and their interactions (e.g. research upkeep).

Zagreus

Re: Could lusternian lore benefit from being codified and made accessible to new players?

To clarify, the events that really shape the game are admin run. Players participate, might influence the outcomes, and typically log what happened but its the admins steering the ship.
Typically, we grab that info along with other lore we've got and extrapolate.

Some of that other lore is stuff like the Nature wars, for example, which has only really been communicated through snatches of visions. We've got a kinda outline of what happened but it's not quite to the same level as the Taint or Elder wars where we have relatively lengthy stories covering those periods.

With that in mind, I think a good launching point could be to have stuff on the website to introduce those story threads, potentially also a help file and somehow linked in character creation.
You could lay out plot hooks, character considerations, faqs, etc to kinda provide a broader overview of things you could use to ground your character's identity in.

Seren might have some stuff about Moon and Hart, maybe one of the faqs is about the Ancestors (i.e yes they are ghosts serens varyingly summon, talk to, or otherwise work with), maybe there's another about if Serenwilde are the "good forest", etc.
In that you could lay out breadcrumbs that can then point you off in the direction of different things you might want to look at or stuff that your character might like to focus on and learn about.

Saran

Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

Uzriel said:

Honestly this is one of the questions that admin really need to define internally in regards to what their goal is with the economy overhaul.

Personally, I am okay with trades -not- being huge money makers but rather something somebody does because its a fun and creative outlet. Going from that perspective making commodities available is important for people to enjoy their creative sides, but an overhaul of trades themselves and adding lots of microthings for them to sell isn't needed, and the convenience of having things non-decay is important.

Depending on which goal one is aiming for really will inform what route admin choose to take.

Realistically, what you're actually suggesting is a trades overhaul just with a different end goal. If that route is taken you need to start looking at stuff like:

Basic variations of all essentials should migrate to denizen shops, because otherwise you're ignoring one of the significant issues driving suggestions.
As part of that we should also expand sorcelglass / steal the design skin selling system aetoila has so instead trades just skin those basic essentials rather than crafting competing stuff.
Tattoo powers, furniture benefits, and armour enhancements should be removed. Given your argument seems around everyone should have all trade stuff available all the time, even stuff like enchantments and cures could as well. (edit: other games stuff like acquisitio is just how it works)
Trades should be looked at in the same way purely design trades are handled in other games, potentially creating some barriers to just picking them up, no trans skill bonuses. The lesson investments to learn them should also be heavily revised downward.
Trade artifacts like the spatula should all be refunded.
Trade slots should be removed because there's no reason to limit how many anyone can hold if they're purely for designing with refunds to people that have them.
There may also need to be some partial refunds for purchased workbenches.
Arguably it may even worth considering in such an overhaul, do commodities have a place in the game at all. You could just delete them, give everything gold/power costs and be done with it.
edit: Goop crafting and aethertrades were added with the goal of providing value generation to trades, so they may also be up for removal/reworking because they don't fit in a view that trades are just for designing. (They also indicate that the most recent significant work of trades reinforced that they are for profit, against your stance)

Of course, that also means changing a wonder item and at least three series of curios, along with thousands of credits and lessons of potential purchases evaporating from the game.
As opposed to fixing the economy and making it function as it seems intended which would provide additional meaningful activities for players to engage in, fix up artifacts that don't really serve a purpose, and potentially provide more ways for players to invest in the game.

Saran

Could lusternian lore benefit from being codified and made accessible to new players?

The allure of lusternia is that you get to write your story into the game. The problem is it's hard to do that when 95% of its player generated content is held in the hands of its long time players who were at those events and had the logs to prove it. If they stop playing, it all vanishes. Lusternia will loses and is essentially reset back to what ever is on the official forums, website and in the library system. - It's fragmented and lacking the context needed to understand it.

The only way to learn about it is to go ask an older player and hope that they are not busy or are in the mood. (they usually are) or to read the events post in the news system IG. The news posts state what happens, without any of the context needed to understand these events. It's not a pleasant experience to marathon a huge bout of reading, on a mudclient IG. Anyone who plays lusternia, is by default a bookworm.

I suggest that players would be rewarded on at the organization and character level for filing cleaned up admin approved, logs of player run events. Rewards could be dailycredits or a boost to daily credits, and credit bonuses across the org for players who wish to buy credits or credit rewards to the organization. By default, these logs can only be viewed by the members of that organization only; unless an admin + org leader agrees to make it public. Public logs are put on the small subsection of the official website, to give new players a taste of what the game is like now. (i.e motivate to play! My stuff made it into the game and will remain there for all time, until it is taken down).

Lusternian science makes no sense. I mean we can answer complex questions about god/commune/city motivations but we can't answer questions like "what does Hallifax run on?" or simple ones like "Do we have magnets?" or ones like "what kind of tech or gnomish weapons?"

Designers are going to have an easier time of figuring out what's permitted and what's not. Admins don't have to keep fielding questions of what's

permitted and what's not.

Then on a meta level - why can't we remove the taint IG?

Obviously, the producers don't have to reveal everything, but there should be internal consistancy.

(I don't want to have to do a massive research project just to come up with a nuanced character that does not default to the lusterian/IRE standard of "crazy brain dead snugglebunny with no parents, who humps offscreen" or 'Crazy blood thirsty combat warrior with no parents". or "I hate the opposing org because ...PATRIOTISM!" or if you get a new new player who is playing his/her/their first mud we're going to get a character that is "um...taint is bad" or "the light is good?" while asking basic questions like "How do I operate this game?" and then quitting because no one wants to engage, and it's no much to read. Figuring out possible philosophical angles for your character is going to be easier if you've got access to how lusternia works on a meta and physical level. )

Guys please discuss!

(@Iosai @Ianir @Orael take a look at this!)

Isser

Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

Here's an idea.

Remove the Trade Ministry. Remove the possibility of selling comms to orgs. Remove the "stock" of comms that each org owns.

Every org obviously sells every comm for a specific price. When a village tithes comms, instead of the village tithing "100 Steel", it simply tithes Steel, and that org's steel prices drop slightly, dropping more based on how much that village's comm quest for that comm has been performed. If, say Serenwilde almost always controls Estelbar but not a mining village, then over time, they're going to get cheaper and cheaper vegetables/wood/fruit/grain but their metal prices may be a little higher. Not exorbitantly higher, mind you, but enough where it's obvious.

Allow org councils to institute comm policy trades with other orgs. Each time this is done (once per weave), it slightly raises the prices of a chosen comm in the first, but reduces it in the second. Serenwilde wants to trade fruit, wood, and grain to Magnagora for cheaper iron and gems? Maybe Hallifax is in bad need of gems because Gaudiguch keeps stealing Talthos, so they institute a trade policy with Celest in exchange for cheaper steel.

Parhelion

Veneration

Most skills in veneration feel like they are meant to be used in order versus order wars. While some are still quite handy without it, some feel very lacking, expensive, or useless without having many cultists around, which already is difficult to gain. The skill itself requires a large amount of cult essence, and then several require such expenditures it seems like they won't be used, given the relatively low benefits.

That isn't to say it's not cool. I love the very concept of cults. I like all the fluff with it. But it feels like an extremely old skill set. And the longer it goes without changes, the least likely it'll be used. And given how much effort goes into creating a cult for the Divine involved, it would be nice to see it used more often. More things outside of the realm, more visible to the Basin at large to see the union between god and demigod/dess.

Venerate Form a divine cult to venerate your patron.

Cost: 10,000,000 essence (Free if Ascendant)

Having fanned your divine spark beyond that of a mere mortal, and having

formed a bond with an Elder Divine, such a union can be furthered upon.

With the agreement of your patron, you can form a divine cult to

venerate an aspect of Their divinity.

- Nothing wrong with this, as it is literally the ability to like...become a cult. Makes sense.

Meditation 50% Inept Strengthen the bond between you and your patron.

MEDITATE UPON <patron>

Cost: 30,000 cult essence per meditation

As a divine cult is formed, it is weak. The bond, however, can be

expanded upon by meditating on it. By meditating at your altar, forged

in the instant that you and your patron formed your union, you can

increase the strength of your veneration.

- As with the first, it is needed in order to create the cult. Having to be at the shrine in order to strengthen the cult makes sense. That's fine.

Pilgrimage 0% Novice All pilgrimages begin with a prayer for deliverance.

VENERATE <patron> WITH PILGRIMAGE

Cost: 500 essence

By venerating your God with a rite of Pilgrimage, He may grant you

passage through the known planes to your cult's altar within His realm.

- This is a fine nice power. Anyone in the cult can use it, it doesn't cost a lot of power, a nice way to get to your God's realm.

Glory 50% Novice A ritual to seek the ineffable wisdom of your patron.

VENERATE <patron> WITH GLORY

Cost: 10,000 essence

Venerate your God with a rite of Glory, seeking divine wisdom for your

cult. All members present will be granted experience, the amount varying

on the number of members present.

- Unsure how this stacks up. It is unlikely that the 10,000 essence is worth it without at least 3 cult members, probably many more. It can be done alone though, and anyone in the cult can do it, so if the cult has a lot of essence, probably fine. Mostly forgotten, but not bad.

ReverentContemplatio 0% Apprentice A ritual of blessing for sheltered sleep.

VENERATE <patron> WITH REVERENTCONTEMPLATIONS

Cost: 5,000 essence

Venerate your patron with a private ritual, drawing your physical and

spiritual self closer to Him. For a time, sleeping within His/Her realm

will increase your base health regeneration by three times.

- Useless to the avatar, as they don't sleep. I don't think you can sleep after level 80 without an artifact that lets you deepsleep again. I like the flavour of it. It might be nice if you got unique dreams while using it? People in orders already get unique order related dreams.

Did you know that? Most people don't I think. It's really neat! I don't think they get seen often enough! This is still a....really weird one. So many people are, if not demigod/desses, then at the very least over level 80 by the time they'd find themselves in an order and in a cult.

Prospicience 50% Apprentice See the world through another's eyes.

VENERATE <patron> WITH PROSPICIENCE OF <cult member>

Cost: 500 essence

See through the eyes of a member of your cult, and know the world as

they know it. Only the Avatar may perform this rite, and it must be

performed at the cult's altar.

- Really nice flavour and it doesn't use a lot of essence! Having to be at the altar is a bit annoying. Perhaps anyone in the cult can cast it, but they must be at the altar, but the avatar, having the deeper connection, can cast it anywhere. Moving or doing stuff would interrupt it?

SupplicantsPrayer 0% Capable A ritual of devotion precedes all offerings.

VENERATE <patron> WITH SUPPLICANTSPRAYER

Cost: 100,000 essence

Increase the value of your cult's offerings with this rite of

supplication. The more cultists are present at the time of its casting,

the more potent the bonus. The benefit will last for one day, and then

fade.

- Nice! Extremely expensive for what it does. Useful if you plan on offering gobbing amounts of esteem. But still, extreeeemly expensive.

VindicatedVendetta 50% Capable A ritual to vindicate your actions.

VENERATE <patron> WITH VINDICATEDVENDETTA

Cost: 5,000

Damage Buff: 1/10 to all sources (against order enemies)

A personal promise to your Patron, you may beseech a vindication for

your prejudice against cultists of an enemy god - and so smite them with

a bolstered fury. Can only be cast at the cult's altar.

- Situational. Against order enemies? Must be cast at the cult altar. At least it can be cast by anyone in the cult and not just the avatar. I think.

Intervention 0% Adept Every flock requires a shepherd.

VENERATE <patron> WITH INTERVENTION OF <cult member>

Cost: 5,000

Intervene on behalf of a cult member and risk the trials that would rise

against them in their stead. Note only the Avatar of the cult can

perform this rite, and it can only be performed from the cult's altar.

- Avatar only and at the altar. If anyone could cast it, but keep it at the altar, it could be good? I understand it certainly can't be cast anywhere, as that would make an avatar...extremely strong.

BenevolentEmanations 50% Adept A ritual to manifest the benevolent will of your God.

VENERATE <patron> WITH BENEVOLENTEMANATIONS

Cost: 25,000 essence

Member Requirement: 2 (Avatar Can Cast Alone)

Summon the attention of your Patron, beseeching Him to manifest His

benevolent will throughout His realm. Healing emanations of these

benevolent blessings will rain down upon His devout, and of those who He

looks benevolently upon.

- One of the ones that feels like it's a leftover from cult wars. A blessing! For the realm! Almost no one attacks realms. It's been real life years since anyone has tried to kill a moth, and that includes when Mysrai was off snoozing/meeting the Best Tae'dae, and given how big the realm is, you'd think at least a few would hunt it. But no. So an expensive power, for use...only in the realm.

DevoutShield 0% Master A ritual of protection against the blasphemous.

VENERATE <patron> WITH DEVOUTSHIELD

Cost: 5,000 essence

Damage Resistance: 1/6 from all sources

Venerate your Patron with this rite, and He may bestow upon you a shield

worthy of His devout. Such a blessing will protect you against harm, no

matter the source. This rite can only be cast at a cult altar.

- Not bad? Again, weird to have to be cast at the altar. At least it's from every source, and anyone in the cult can cast it without needing multiple cult members.

Noetics 50% Master To know, to hear, to speak through that which is devout.

(Cult Leader Only)

VENERATE <patron> WITH NOETICS FOR <cult member>

Cost: 10,000 essence

CULT SPEAK <text>

Venerate your patron with this rite and be granted the privilege to not

only hear what your cult member hears, but to speak directly through

him. This can only be performed at the cult's altar, and will fade if

you move from it.

Note: To cancel an active noetics, the Avatar need only move or

re-perform the rite.

- Expensive for only the avatar? Perhaps this could have two forms. One by the cult leader that can use it anywhere, and one where another cult member can use it from only the altar, to be closer to the cult.

MalevolentEmanations 0% Gifted A ritual to manifest the malevolent will of your God.

VENERATE <patron> WITH MALEVOLENTEMANATIONS

Cost: 25,000 essence

Member Requirement: 4 (Avatar Can Cast Alone)

Summon the attention of your Patron, beseeching Him to manifest His

malevolent will throughout His realm. Angered emanations of these

violent curses will rain down upon those who would defile His realm.

- Expensive, altar only, realm only. Defile Their realm? You can't do that, so I'm assuming “being an enemy within Their realm” so again...this is incredibly niche. Even though the avatar can cast alone, it's expensive for something the affects only the realm. And only order enemies.

DeiparousSpeed 50% Gifted A ritual to seek god-given speed.

VENERATE <patron> WITH DEIPAROUSSPEED

Cost: 5,000 essence

Venerate your Patron with this rite before the cult's altar, and He may

bestow upon you the ability to move faster and farther than before. Move

swiftly across the land, and spread the word of your God.

- Perfectly adequate. At the cult altar though? But hey! Not toooo expensive, anyone can cast it and use it, go zoomies.

SolemnCall 0% Expert A single word is all that is needed.

VENERATE <patron> WITH SOLEMNCALL

Cost: 15,000 essence

Member Requirement: 2 (Avatar Can Cast Alone)

Perform this rite and place a solemn call to duty for all cultists to

answer. If they are on a known plane, they will immediately begin to

draw close, and little will stop them. Enemy territory, however, will

hinder, but not stop, their travels.

- Does this force them to come without being able to stop it? Does moving stop it? At least cult members can start the process without needing the avatar.

HymnicChoir 50% Expert All within your God's creation shall sing praise.

VENERATE <patron> WITH HYMNICCHOIR

Cost: 20,000 essence

Member Requirement: 2 (Avatar Can Cast Alone)

Send the inhabitants of your Patron's realm into songs of praise and

glory, bolstering your cult members health, mana and ego while within.

As well, others not of your cult but followers of your God - or members

of orders He looks benevolently upon - shall receive a lesser blessing

of the same nature.

- So only within the realm again. At least this time it effects orders They also look benevolently upon, if you have some sort of big shebang in the divine realm! Again, this feels like it's a leftover against order versus order wars.

PiousSacrifice 0% Virtuoso To gain something, something else must be lost.

VENERATE <patron> WITH PIOUSSACRIFICE

Cost: 10,000 essence

Offer up the essence of your cult to your God, sanctifying shrines and

lands in His name.

- Fine. A way to sanctify shrines without using essence? Wait. Wouldn't it be easier and probably cheaper to use...use essence?

Portal 50% Virtuoso Channel a gateway through the planes.

VENERATE <patron> WITH PORTAL TO <NEXUS|GODREALM|person>

Cost: 10,000+ essence

Member Requirement: 3 (Leader Can Cast Alone)

Beseech your God to provide a means of travel, piercing through the

planes themselves.

- 10000+? + what? How much? Nexus is the nexus of the person, or the nexus that the god is aligned to? Where in the Godrealm? The cults altar? Why not just use pilgrimage then? For way less cost?

FaithfulCongregation 0% Fabled All shall come at the call of the faithful.

Syntax: VENERATE <patron> WITH FAITHFULCONGREGATION

Essence: 5000

Member Requirement: (Avatar Only)

By beseeching your patron to mark you as the most faithful of His

congregations, those of the Cult will find their health, mana and ego

bolstered for every fellow of their Cult in their area.

- So only the avatar can do this, and only for their cultists. This is already an avatar power? They can exalt stuff. And it only helps cultist so it's even more limited than exalting, as exalting is at least for all order members.

DivineSupper 50% Fabled Sup at the table of your patron's benevolence.

Syntax: VENERATE <patron> WITH DIVINESUPPER

Essence: 5000

Member Requirement: 3

Call upon your Patron to bless your cult, and so sup as the Divine might

- the divine energies restoring your health, mana, ego, endurance,

willpower and protecting you against enemies.

NOTE: This can only be cast once a month.

- Love the flavour! Requires three members. Most cults aren't...super active from what I've heard. The most active cult in Mysrai's order, who has probably the most cults, is lucky if it has three members online at any one time. Can only be cast once a month. Well, you're probably only going to get 3 once a month? Probably.

Presence 0% Mythical Increase the reach of your God's influence.

Syntax: VENERATE <patron> WITH PRESENCE

Essence: 50000

Member Requirement: 4

Ego bonus: 1/5

Influence bonus: 1/5

Call your God's presence to walk amongst the Cult, bolstering your

influencing, and ego for a time.

- Oh! This requires even....one more person! Terrifying! For that much essence and members required for that much of a bonus is...not great.

Omniscience 50% Mythical Hear and speak freely on all planes.

Syntax: VENERATE <patron> WITH OMNISCIENCE <ACTIVE|INACTIVE>

Essence: 5000 (50 per minute upkeep)

Member Requirement: (Cult Leader Only)

Beseech your God to allow your perceptions to expand across the known

multiverse, allowing you to hear anything spoken on all known aethers.

- Cool, I like it. Very nice. Perhaps some way for a cultist to use it, but perhaps at a cost to themselves as well?

TrueSermon 0% Transcendent Let all hear the truest of sermons as it echoes across your God's domain.

Syntax: VENERATE <patron> WITH TRUESERMON

Essence: 35000

Member Requirement: 2 (Avatar can cast alone)

Expand your presence throughout the realm of your God, through your

Cult's Altar, and allow all loyal to Him to hear your inspiring words of

your God's glory. For a time after such a sermon, the inhabitants of the

realm shall be stronger, driven by purpose and devotion.

- The transcendent skill! Requires...a lot of essence. And uhm. Okay, so. Let's use the word “moths” here. It makes moths stronger. This doesn't make them worth more god essence (the essence you see in the logs when an order member influences them), I don't think it even makes them worth more personal essence or esteem generation. If it does, it's a very low amount. And that is from the perspective of the largest divine order with the most moths. For anyone else this is absolutely a waste of essence. It would likely have been great in order versus order wars, but again that's no longer a thing, so this, for a transcendent skill of a skill that is hard to get, is going to be woefully under utlized. And even in the wars, you can't direct the divine mobs to go anywhere, so they'd be stronger...by themselves. Smack. One dead moth. Smack. Another. They don't clump like they use to, so it would still be extremely easy to murder them.

I didn't do this as a report as it seemed like it needed a lot more detail, so I thought perhaps a forum report would be better.

Shulamit

Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals

Parhelion said:

Shango said:

Used to have manse generators, and in the name of scarcity to...SOMEHOW...fix the economy, that was removed.

I can almost promise you that this happened because Someone was afraid comm generators were costing them irl money.

Normally I have no desire to respond to claims like this because there's no benefit in it on our side, however this is outlandish and well-documented enough already that I have absolutely no issues doing so.

It happened because they got out of control and stockpiles of 10-200k of a single comm were becoming common, to the point where scarcity became non-existent in an economy that, while barely functioning as it is, relies on scarcity of commodities to exist. Money was not a concern, the game's health was.

Ianir