Best Of

*considers playing Lusty again*

*reads this thread*

*remembers why stopped playing Lusty*

*goes back to simply reading forums for lolzertainment*

Coraline said:

I don't do combat at all, but will having a cap on maximum number of players from an org that can take part in a pk event help?

Possibly, but that would make people miss out on the event. I was the last kid picked in basketball growing up. That's not too fun. 

As a player, these discussions are making me question my return. Maybe the non-Gloms do need to try harder, but, it does really seem insurmountable for us at this point, so I personally am not going to try even relearning combat unless something changes. And what I seem to be hearing from Glom people is that I am therefore the problem. Because I'm not trying. And I'm not alone in this, a lot of people have been trying and are just tired of it at this point, or, like me, look at combat and go well, there's not much point.

So what I'm asking is, if I am a problem for not trying, do you want me to leave, and the other tired people to leave, leaving Lusternia smaller but with only people who want to try? Would that be better? I'm not trying to be snide, this is an actual question I want the people winning to answer.

Yes, I like Lycidas' ideas.

Honestly people, can we stop squabbling over the same stupid things and getting topics closed? Here's some ground rules for the children at play:

1) If an opinion entry is made, do not respond to it with any measure of hostility.

2) If your opinion is about in-game politics, please identify the actual grouping rather than generalize.

3) If your opinion is about OOC and forums, please identify the actual grouping rather than generalize.

4) There is no need to get defensive or offensive. We're adults, hopefully, and should be able to express our opinion without attacking.

5) If a post is found to be unsavory by breaking one of these rules. Admin please REMOVE the post, NOT the thread....please.

--OPINION--

People need to stop getting offended when a generalized grouping is used. If it clearly doesn't include you, then there's no need for offense. We're human! We state generalizations for ease such as, "I hate people." when they clearly have friends and family those don't hate. Because of these people feeling the need to defend themselves when they're not being discussed, irritates me to the point we have to put rules to SPECIFY the people. If it doesn't apply to you, please just ignore it and know that more than likely, it wasn't targeted at you.

Xenthos said:

Shaddus said:

No, people aren't saying NMBG oocly. But people who mainly play in Glomdoring do tend to band together oocly when criticism of Glomdoring occurs in any sort of medium. Said players of Glomdoringites, more than any other org, tend to get incensed when you speak out against Glomdoring, going out of their way to divert the conversation or use logical fallacies to route the conversation away from Glomdoring and towards other orgs. They urge their players/members to be insular, trusting only in themselves and to ignore outside criticism. Nothing is their fault, everyone is simply jealous or wrong, or toxic.

My opinion: When people constantly attack an organization and all its members, it is not surprising if the people in that organization draw together.  If you continue to lambast them, it is similarly not surprising if they choose to disengage from interacting with you.  Most of us have opted not to bother with the forums for a while now because of this (see the reaction Synl got in the Snowball thread), and somehow you're still going on, now using the outcome that people have been stridently pushing for to justify continuation / escalation of the same.

Oh no, I'm not buying that. Point me one person from Hallifax, Magnagora, Serenwilde or pre-alliance shift Celest that had participated competitively in any conflict event to this day and found it on fair terms and your (Both in person and as the organization) attitude is reasonable. It's unbelievable how you claim your stance is reactionary to attacks, while people criticizing you and your skillsets have either stopped participating or they have gone more and more aggressive with it. Calls for a little self-introspection, doesn't it? With all due respect to players like Rancoura. (I don't think people mean "you" when they call "Glomdoring" in general, I'd wager they're mostly calling out envoys, forum knights etc.) False memory (in the sense of finding the most convenient answer to all the problems being presented) has been practiced on an OOC level. NMBG (in the context of don't touch strong skillsets, let's ensure finding whatever argument there's to make it not happen.) has been practiced on an OOC level. Or do you want examples and links for that too?

Shaddus said:

No, people aren't saying NMBG oocly. But people who mainly play in Glomdoring do tend to band together oocly when criticism of Glomdoring occurs in any sort of medium. Said players of Glomdoringites, more than any other org, tend to get incensed when you speak out against Glomdoring, going out of their way to divert the conversation or use logical fallacies to route the conversation away from Glomdoring and towards other orgs. They urge their players/members to be insular, trusting only in themselves and to ignore outside criticism. Nothing is their fault, everyone is simply jealous or wrong, or toxic.

...When insulting statements such as:

Kethaera said:

Glomdoring is an actual cult, and people who adhere to it stop accepting reality.

and "Glomdoring is the problem" etc. are being made, is it really a wonder why Glomdoring players (even those who haven't participated in the discussions from which these opinions have been formed, imagine that) would take offense and react accordingly? Wouldn't the same happen with any group, if that group is prosecuted as a whole due to the actions of a few? I could provide real-world religious/racial  examples of this happening, but in the interest of leaving forum policies intact I won't; hopefully my point will get across all the same.

As for the urging of players to be insular and ignore outside criticism, I... really don't know where that perception is coming from, unless I've missed something in the other threads or it is taking place in the OOC clan I am not part of. I haven't felt urged to hate on criticizers or to think that Glomdoring is perfect as it is mechanically or otherwise and does not need to be changed.

Synl said:

If one of the big issues is bleed, why don't we talk about changing it to act more like other affs? Have it be cured by one of the central cures, instead of clot/chervil. Make it go up levels like timewarp/deathmark. Each level adds x damage taken whenever the player takes damage. Or each level slows down the time it takes to recover sip balance. Or recover slush balance. That's probably the closest analog.

Bleeding is an issue, but I would rather buff instead of trying to nerf it due to what Esoneyuna mentioned about sledgehammer. Bleeding > timewarp but not by much. Tempinsanity may need some help. I am actually not sure how it is going right now. Serenwilde looks theoretically okay. Demon marks definitely needs a tweaking do to nerfs after rework.

Ignore mages because I'm hoping mage rework is after Timequakes. Let's discuss classes: Wicca/Gaurdian > monk(not halli/Gaudi) > bard > warriors. Let's get all these on par. 

However, none of this fixes the numbers (players). Unless we swing the pendulum and make this side op to where numbers don't matter then the exact thing would happen just the sides would be swapped. 

All classes need a viable kill method. We also need to discuss what viable is. Is SD where we want our kill methods to be in terms of viability? If so then great let's get to reporting. 

Innon said:

Honestly, the refusal to even acknowledge there is an issue makes me want to go dorment. Keep ignoring the problem and kill the game. There are several solutions, but it would require Glom/Gaudi/Celest to give up your easy wins, but hey that shouldn't be an issue since you already got gud and stay positive, right? I'm willing to adjust alliances away from 3v3 to 2v2v2 or 1v1v1v1v1v1 or 1v1v1v1v2 or any variation. I am willing to sit out of fights to make odds even. I'm willing to theory craft, I am willing to spar, I am willing to buff or nerf, and I am willing change to any class to create a fair playing field. My question is what are you all willing to do to help? @everyone

First, I really want to commend Innon for their constant efforts in trying to move the discussion forward.

Did I miss a post in this thread where people were either asked if there was an issue and said no, or where someone just said there's no issue? I might have.

The only thing I've said is pretending there is a single problem and that the problem must be with glom is shortsighted and that I think it is a mistake to put this on players. This is almost entirely a issue created by Lusternia game design and somewhat to Admin RP. If Glom was removed from the game the problem would be elsewhere and if that is true then the problem has to be systematic.

Now, of course there should be systems in Lusternia that reward for different things and I agree it would be good if the admin tried something new with timequakes.

I have also suggested that parts of existing mechanics should perhaps have different mechanics. Maybe one or two domoths behave differently. Maybe one or two villages already do (arguably peaced villages are one such example). Would it be helpful to have a village, perhaps Estelbar not even listen to anyone who's killed something in the two years, maybe?

The last few years have been a missed opportunity by players to move the game design in the direction many of you seem to be asking for.

How many players sat back silently while the admin implemented a 100% bonus between first and last in org credits?

How many players are silent when it comes to your orgs demoralizing combatants by offering them token rewards while you're willing to toss fistful of rewards to your 'scholars and artisans' or worse you pay org leaders. 

How many players instead of quitting joined the staff to actually fix anything?

How many players are silent when yet another system is added with a built in level of frustration? We still have staff adding systems that are all or nothing even outside of PK. Take bards, scholars, pilgrims where you can spend 10+ hours trying to move your achievement forward only to miss it a single day and be reset not back a day or two, but entirely back to zero.

Why is frustration a constant design feature of Lusternia? It actually feels as an outsider that someone is behind the scenes telling some designer, "Okay, you can go ahead. But, you need to make it more frustrating." You finally picked up a chicken, you can only hold it 3 seconds. Oh, that gnome trader, yep, it moved again, etc. A lot of these things are cute the first few times, but Lusternia is a game that often asks you to repeat tasks dozens, hundreds, and even thousands of times.

>> So more back on track.

If the game wasn't so much all or nothing ask yourself if you would even be complaining that much about Glom? Sure, you might want your class buffed. You might not like the synergy your org was given over another's, but, if you could make things work some of the time wouldn't that alone be a huge change?


And before someone posts back at this. Ask yourself, what exactly did you or your org do to court a change in alliances when I gave the Basin a big fat opening?